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以上する

healer

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最近のデザイナーTシャツは100ドル以上する。

The translation of 以上する is “cost over”
I looked up the dictionary and found that 以上 is a noun.
Is it a way to convert a noun to verb by adding する behind or is it some sort of grammar structure that I haven’t learnt?
I googled 以上する and I didn’t find any example. It looks like such usage isn’t common.
 

bentenmusume

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That's because it's not 以上 and する that forms a set phrase, but rather that する is just a standard phrase that can be used with any currency amount to express how much sometimes costs. 一万円もする, etc.

That said, your question regarding using する with nouns to form verbs strikes me as curious, since it's an incredibly common occurrence. 勉強する, 料理する, 修理する, etc.

Again, though, this isn't like those cases. The 以上 is incidental here.
 

bentenmusume

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To supplement the above, see definition #9 here.
 

healer

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Thanks again for your help!

using する with nouns to form verbs strikes me as curious
I did know about them but I treat them as a different kettle of fish.
It was just that I learnt and remember them as some set verbs I can find in dictionaries individually happen to be a noun + するcreated by some authority. Unlike adjective --> adverb + する where anyone can coin up and use so long as the rule is followed. I don't think I can willy-nilly do with nouns though.

Quite a few times I've come across する-suffixed verbs not specifically set out in dictionaries. It seems to me any adjectives be i-adjectives or na-adjectives having been adverbialized can go with する but it is not the case with nouns. Am I correct? I can't go by dictionaries either because it is quite often nouns that do go with する are not all listed as such.
 

Toritoribe

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Can you give us the examples of "noun + する" you've come across?
 

healer

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Can you give us the examples of "noun + する" you've come across?
As regards those verbs of noun+する which is not described explicitly as such in the dictionary I use, I just came across by chance in the example sentences in the course of learning the Japanese language. I can’t recall off the top of my head. I will try given some time.

If I was wrong, please point out. I guess that not all nouns can be converted to be verbs simply adding する. There might be some rules that I haven’t learnt.

I thank you for your kind attention.
 

healer

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I’ve just stumbled upon the following example in the dictionary I use while looking up 完了. Unlike 破損, 完了 isn’t listed explicitly as a する verb. However it is used as such in the sentence below. This is the situation I tried to describe in my second post above.
屋根が破損した家は今では修理が完了している。
 
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bentenmusume

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完了する is very common and seems to be listed as a する verb in many references and dictionaries. Maybe it's just a coincidence you haven't been exposed to it?

 

Toritoribe

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Here are examples.

完了(かんりょう) の意味
かん‐りょう〔クワンレウ〕【完了】 の解説
[名](スル)


かん りょう くわんれう [0]【完了】
( 名 ) スル


完了
Noun, Suru verb, No-adjective

 

healer

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I apologise that I had picked the wrong 完了. I got the one read as ワンラwhich is not marked as a するverb. The other one かんりょうis actually marked as such. I had the wrong example to demonstrate what I meant. I’ll keep looking. By the way,is ワンラever used in everyday Japanese?

Nevertheless the ultimate question I would like to ask is whether I can simply convert any noun to a するverb? Any rules? Must they be noun of action like 勉強and so on? What about noun like 政治for example? Can I make 政治するfor politicking? This one is not specified as する-verb in the dictionary.

By the way,are する-verbs always intransitive? If not,how to determine their transitivity? For some reason,the dictionary I use never indicates the transitivity of する-verbs.

Thanks again Toritoribe-san and Bentenmusume-san.
 

bentenmusume

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No, you cannot turn any noun into a verb with する. Examples like the following are all nonsensical, as you can probably imagine.

☓知識する ("to knowledge")
☓危険する ("to danger")
☓健康する ("to health")

And no, not all する verbs are intransitive. Basic examples like 日本語を勉強する should demonstrate otherwise. On the other hand, something like 安心する is clearly intransitive. Some verbs can even be both depending on the usage, like 完成する/完成させる. Just like all verbs, you really just have to familiarize yourself with the range of meanings and the different contexts in which they are used.

Unfortunately, there's no black-or-white, all-or-nothing, 100% or 0% rule to apply here.
 

Toritoribe

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In your initial example 100ドル以上する, する is not a usual する "to do" which is used in -suru verbs. This する means "to cost / be worth" i.e., かかる, as bentenmusume-san already explained. Also, (100ドル)以上 is not a noun but an adverbial phrase to express degree or quantity here, as same as もっとする/かかる or もう少しする/かかる.

You said you've often come across "noun + する", but, to tell the truth, I suspect that the expressions you've come across could be actually usual -suru verbs like 完了する or not "noun + する" like 100ドル以上する. That's why I asked you to give us examples.

By the way,is ワンラever used in everyday Japanese?
That's Chinese pronunciation.
 

healer

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Thanks Bentenmusume-san!
安心する
You have given me an example I’ve been searching for in the last few days. I looked up 安心 and I found this is one of those I referred to before where dictionaries don’t classify it to be a する-verb, the jisho.org and imiwa. Because of absence of set rules I have been trying to check every one of them with a dictionary to determine if any noun can be treated as a する-verb. Unfortunately dictionaries are not complete in this sense. So it looks like I somehow have to pick them up one by one and accept what I see not relying on dictionaries to verify.
 

healer

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Thanks Toritoribe-san.
する is not a usual する "to do" which is used in -suru verbs.
I do realise the する in the initial example is not part of usual する-verb, neither does it mean “to do” thanks to Bentenmusume-san’s explanation. I took the chance to discuss general する-verbs. I can’t thank you both enough.

Are you saying I’m wrong to say all the する-verbs consist of noun and する? I had supposed for example 完了する where 完了 is a noun.
 

Toritoribe

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I looked up 安心 and I found this is one of those I referred to before where dictionaries don’t classify it to be a する-verb, the jisho.org and imiwa.
????

あんしん【安心】 の解説
[名・形動](スル)


あんしん [0]【安心】
( 名 ・形動 ) スル [文] ナリ


安心
Na-adjective, Noun, Suru verb


Are you saying I’m wrong to say all the する-verbs consist of noun and する?
Yes. 勉強する is a single word(verb), not "noun 勉強 + verb する". That's why 日本語を勉強する and 日本語の勉強をする are different in the sentence structure. (勉強 is a noun in the latter example, needless to say.)
 

healer

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Thanks for the details of 安心. Again I’ve found two different headwords for the same kanji’s with different pronunciations. I had mistaken あんじん for あんしん where the former wasn’t registered as する-verb whereas the latter was. Please accept my apology.

Just one more verb on this topic I would like your comment. I have seen タップして詳細を表示 on my mobile phone. I looked up タップ. It was definitely not set out as する-verb. However in the sentence given, it is a する-verb, isn’t it?
 

Toritoribe

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I looked up タップ. It was definitely not set out as する-verb.
Really???

タップ【tap】 の解説
[名](スル)


タップ
Noun, Suru verb

 

healer

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Thanks a lot!
I can see both marked as する-verb on goo.ne.jp, not on jisho.org and imiwa though. It looks like I need to start using goo.ne.jp. Thanks again.
 

healer

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Thanks for your tolerance and perseverance! My oversight on both. I did glance through.
 
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