とかからない and もかからない

raikado

先輩

29 Oct 2012

523

21

• 9 Mar 2015

• #1

Hello,

I have a question regarding the following usage of と.

６ （数量を表す語に付き、打消しの表現を伴って）その範囲以上には出ない意を表す。…までも。「全部で一〇〇円―かからない」「一〇〇キロ―走らなかった」

Click to expand...

と［格助接助並助］の意味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書

And one more example sentence : ５分と走らないうちに息切れしてしまった。>>> "I had not run five minutes when I got out of breath."

Does replacing も with と in these 3 examples (2 from the dictionary) change anything?

 

killerinsidee

先輩

14 Dec 2013

277

16

• 9 Mar 2015

• #2

I think も sounds stronger here, i.e., it would put more emphasis on the amount. I guess if you want to get technical, you could say that -something- in the sentences doesn't reach or go over the number/amount attached to this と (as stated in the dictionary with 以上, also までも(ない)), while も emphasizes that amount. I didn't run into this と a whole lot, though. There are examples on alc with も similar to the example your wrote that are similar - 分も ないの英訳｜英辞郎 on the WEB：アルク especially this one - 「帰宅後5分もしないうちに、彼が玄関先に現れた。」.

If I'm wrong about this, someone please correct me.

 

Last edited: 9 Mar 2015

raikado

先輩

29 Oct 2012

523

21

• 9 Mar 2015

• Thread starter
• #3

Thank you for your answer. I don't know about と, but about までも, doesn't it emphasize just as much as も? In the two examples from the dictionary, they seem interchangeable.
全部で一〇〇円までもかからない ＝ 全部で一〇〇円もかからない
一〇〇キロまでも走らなかった ＝ 一〇〇キロも走らなかった
Though I don't think they are interchangeable in the last example. ５分までも走らないうちに息切れしてしまった sounds wrong due to ５分までも走る.

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

16,758

2,298

• 9 Mar 2015

• #4

I don't think it is quite so much s matter of emphasis as it is of showing that something is different from (less than) what one might expect.

 

raikado

先輩

29 Oct 2012

523

21

• 9 Mar 2015

• Thread starter
• #5

@Mike Cash You are reffering just to と, right? And not to what I wrote about も and までも.

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

16,758

2,298

• 9 Mar 2015

• #6

More to も

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 9 Mar 2015

• #7

５分までも走る is invalid since ５分まで走る is invalid, too.
As for と vs も, yes, they are interchangeable and the meaning is the same. と sounds a bit classical or written-word-like, I think.

 

raikado

先輩

29 Oct 2012

523

21

• 10 Mar 2015

• Thread starter
• #8

Mike Cash said:

I don't think it is quite so much s matter of emphasis as it is of showing that something is different from (less than) what one might expect.

Click to expand...

Reading your answer more carefully I see now what you meant. My idea of も was the same though. I said only "emphasis" but I actually meant "emphasis on the fact that the speaker thinks the amount should be at least a certain value but it doesn't even amount to that".

Thank you for clarifying it, Toritoribe!