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というには vs には

zuotengdazuo

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Hi. In the first underlined part, can we omit 、という to mean the same thing? If not, what is the nuance or function of というには? I know the sentence mean “It’s would be misleading to call her a person”, though.
Thank you.

By the way, what is the nuance of のだが (the second underlined part)? I know it is a explanatory のだ plus a が showing contrast.
 

Toritoribe

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いう literally means "to call".

が is for introducing the following part, like ○○と申しますが、××さんはいらっしゃいますか or 明日の予定についてですが、面会の予約が入っています.
 

Toritoribe

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? I don't understand why you think you can omit a verb that has a real meaning and function in a sentence.
 

zuotengdazuo

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Oh. I thought it was like というのは in which we can sometimes omit the という to mean the same thing. So is というには a set phrase? If not, how can I understand the には?
 

zuotengdazuo

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By the way, what is the nuance of のだが (the second underlined part)? I know it is a explanatory のだ plus a が showing contrast.
By the way, since the second underlined part is an explanatory のだ, what is it explaining?
 

bentenmusume

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zuotengdazuo said:
Oh. I thought it was like というのは in which we can sometimes omit the という to mean the same thing. So is というには a set phrase? If not, how can I understand the には?
It's exactly what Toritoribe-san said (and for that matter, exactly as you first interpreted it).

zuotengdazuo said:
I know the sentence mean “It’s would be misleading to call her a person”, though.

The いう literally means "call" here, and the verb+には is just the standard usage of "for"/"in order to":


It could theoretically even be rephrased as と呼ぶ(の)には, since again, it's the literal meaning, so I'm not sure why you're suddenly thinking it's just the same as the rhetorical (not literal) というのは.
 

bentenmusume

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zuotengdazuo said:
By the way, since the second underlined part is an explanatory のだ, what is it explaining?
Again, it's like Toritoribe-san already said. It's introducing what follows. It's not grammatically necessary in this case (you could just say 行ったが), but the の adds more of an explanatory ("this is how it is") nuance.
 

zuotengdazuo

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Thank you, benten-san. I see.
It could theoretically even be rephrased as と呼ぶ(の)には, since again, it's the literal meaning, so I'm not sure why you're suddenly thinking it's just the same as the rhetorical (not literal) というのは.
It’s just because というには and というのは look the same. I realized the meaning of には the moment I posted my last message.😅
 

Toritoribe

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It seems to me that you are too much sensitive about という. As bentenmusume-san mentioned, いう can be rephrased as 呼ぶ there. If it's 人物と呼ぶには語弊がある, you would never think that と呼ぶ can be omitted, right? You need to keep a simple fact in mind that いう is a common verb "to say/call".
 

Toritoribe

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I realized the meaning of には the moment I posted my last message.
Well, then, why didn't you say so in your post? You at least should tell us your interpretation and inform us that it's for confirmation if you think you already understand what you asked about. It seems insincere to me to say "actually I already realized it" after getting our reply. It sounds impolite to me as if you're cheating us.
 

zuotengdazuo

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Well, then, why didn't you say so in your post? You at least should tell us your interpretation and inform us that it's for confirmation if you think you already understand what you asked about. It seems insincere to me to say "actually I already realized it" after getting our reply. It sounds impolite to me as if you're cheating us.
Sorry for not letting you know that I already know that in my last post. I was a bit lazy to edit my post. I won’t do it next time. Please forgive me. 😓
 
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