だろう and だった

Woahify · 27 Jan 2013

I need help understanding だって. Please help! My grammar book is confusing. It gives two different confusing definitions. Here,
「だって」
because, but
「だって」
also, even
I need help understanding because doesn't 「でも」 and 「も」 both mean the same thing? Please help!

One more thing, isn't 「だろう」 like 「でしょう」, but less formal?

Angel Valis · 27 Jan 2013

Japanese has a lot of words with the same or similar meanings. The key is learning where and when to use them. I'm not very familiar with だって so I can't give you in-depth advice on how it might differ slightly from でも in usage. There are several words for "but" or "however", my personal favorite being しかし.

Technically だろう is simply the volitional form of でしょう. So it's usable anywhere the volitional form of a verb is usable in a construction. Often this may be less formal situations, but not always.

EDIT: Also, "because", "but", "also" and "even" actually are somewhat similar in meaning if you think about it.

LewiiG · 27 Jan 2013

This だって is exactly like でも or も, meaning and all. So yes, "even", "although", "but" etc.

だって is just, from what I believe, a more childish and sort of, "complaining" type of "but" or an emphasized "even"

E.g
Used in place of でも or も ("even"). 私でもそれが分かる = 私だってそれが分かる = "even I know/understand that". それが would most likely be omitted.

2. Used as a more complaining "but". A: そこにぜったいに行かせない B:だって！= A: I absolutely won't let you go there. B: But why!?

I believe what I stated is correct. Alas, I am a learner. So like always, some pro conformation is needed.

eeky · 28 Jan 2013

I have big grief with だって. I was advised once that, in most cases, if it's used after a noun like a particle, think of it as "too"; if it's used at the beginning of a sentence, it's "but". There are also cases when I find it clearer to think of it as ordinary だ + suffix って indicating hearsay, insistence or some other nuance. I believe I was told once that all uses of だって have fundamentally the same etymology, but I am not yet able to "see" that.

Toritoribe · 28 Jan 2013

It's better to differentiate between だって/でも as a particle and だって/でも as a conjunction, as eeky-san pointed out.

particle
彼だってできる。/彼でもできる。
Even he can do it.

彼もできる。
He can do it, too.

conjunction
あそこには行っちゃだめだよ。だって危ないからね。
You shouldn't go there, because it's dangerous.

あそこには行っちゃだめだよ。でも友達と一緒ならいいよ。
You shouldn't go there, but it's OK when with friends.

Thus, だって and でも are basically the same as a particle, but they are usually not interchangeable as a conjunction.

EDIT:
Oh, there is another だって as hearsay, of course.

Woahify said:
One more thing, isn't 「だろう」 like 「でしょう」, but less formal?

だろう and でしょう are both "presumptive", so basically yes.

eeky · 28 Jan 2013

Can 彼だってできる also mean "He can do it too"?

Toritoribe · 28 Jan 2013

だって has a nuance of "even", as same as でも, でさえ, so it could sound rude/insulting for him. も doesn't have this nuance.

eeky · 28 Jan 2013

But in some cases it can mean "too/also", like 窶堙?, right? E.g. at:

貯金がない / あんた暴挙としか... / 出す / として / マンションを探すとき... | Japan Forum (4b)

そうかもしれない / エイミーさんが家に来てくれて / 入りました / ようにして | Japan Forum (2b)

How do we tell that the "even" nuance is present in 彼だってできる?

Toritoribe · 28 Jan 2013

Hmm, yeah, "depending on the context" might be the best answer, as always...

だろう and だった

Woahify

窶堙銀?堙ｱ窶堙??堙ｫ窶堋｢窶堙

Angel Valis

黒川

LewiiG

先輩

eeky

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

eeky

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

eeky

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

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