さま・ざま 様 a question out of curiosity...

[Kraise]

Today's question isnt as "urgent" as the ones I usually ask , but something rather interesting

If you search for 様's meaning, you're gonna find the following "Polite suffix, manner, way, situation"

this refer's to さま as the polite suffix and よう, as in 同様。 (Kanji details for 様 - Denshi Jisho
There are, however, a few uses for さま in japanese such as:
1 - さまざまな
2 - いいざまだなー「表現」
3 - 貴様！

Are those "expressions/words" in any way related to the original 様 meaning? For a native person, is there any kind of "association" one does between the さま/ざま in 「いいざまだなー」 and 「神様」 or [貴様]? Or is this any kind of obscure matter that only 古典 experts/students deal with?
Thank you!

 

[Mike Cash]

It seems to me you're looking down the wrong end of the telescope. You're so used to thinking of さま as just being an ultra-polite "mister" that the other uses appear different and unrelated. Flip it around and consider the other uses the primary meaning and you may just get a new appreciation for why さま came to have the "polite suffix" meaning. Consider it in conjunction with things like pronouns such as 彼方(あなた), 其方(そちら)、この方(このかた).....why 方 has two meanings/usages that seem distinct and unrelated to English speakers, etc.

 

[lanthas]

Concerning 貴様: it was originally formal (i.e. in line with the meanings of the individual kanji), but is now used sarcastically.

 

[Kraise]

Hum, So the さま in 貴様 is a sarcastic way of calling someone nowadays, I wasnt aware of that.

Still expressions like 「いいざまだなーくそがき」 still look quite "unique" in their meaning, but maybe its because I'm thinking too much in a western style.

 

[Mike Cash]

Hum, So the さま in 貴様 is a sarcastic way of calling someone nowadays, I wasnt aware of that.

Still expressions like 「いいざまだなーくそがき」 still look quite "unique" in their meaning, but maybe its because I'm thinking too much in a western style.

Everything is context. Context is everything.

ご覧のざま
ざまみろ

 

[Toritoribe]

Still expressions like 「いいざまだなーくそがき」 still look quite "unique" in their meaning

"What a good look / manner" in sarcastic usage. As in the dictionary, ざま is ALWAYS used in negative meaning.

ざま【様／態】
［名］《「さま」の音変化》ようす・なりふり・しわざなどをあざけって言う語。「その―はなんだ」

ざま【様／態】の意味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書

 

[Kraise]

Aah, that clears things up for me. Thanks