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あの先生は10年前から英語を教えてきているそうです。

zuotengdazuo

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1. あの先生は10年前から英語を教えてきているそうです。
2. あの先生は10年前から英語を教えていったそうです。

Hi. I made up the two sentences. Are they correct? What is the difference between them? Thank you.
 

zuotengdazuo

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If my sentences are incorrect, could you give me two examples using てきている and ていった respectively to show the difference between them?
 

Toritoribe

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I already explained about ~てきた vs ~ていった in your previous thread.


~てきている is just present progressive of ~てきた , i.e., the change is still on-going.
 

zuotengdazuo

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Thank you. Yes, I know I asked about it in that thread. But I still have some further questions.
I am just being unsure about ~てきている and ~ていった, as well as ~てきていた.
My textbook says ~てきている is used to talk about something started in the past and the state continues up until now. I want to use this explanation to make up a sentence, which is my sentence 1 in the op. But I don’t quite understand why it doesn’t work?

And I found this diagram in multiple sites, for example,

1143EC45-E463-487B-8AAD-1A2679E6CB3D.jpeg


This is a bit different from your diagram:
reference point is past
~てきた/~ていった

now
~てきた/~ていく

future
~てくる/~ていく
Whichever diagram, it seems we can use ~ていった to talk about some past action was continuing up until present. So both my sentences in op are supposed to work and mean the same thing. However, I was told they don’t work. I wonder why?
 

zuotengdazuo

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ベストアンサーがない。強いて言えば四番。というかうすうす分かってきてはいたけれど、ネットに人生の答えはないのだ。

Hi. I have come across this sentence. I thought of the diagram in the picture when I read it. The bold part uses てきていた, which, I think, set some past time as the reference point in time. But according to your diagram, it seems てきた and てきている also work in this sentence. Is it right?

The context is that the speaker/protagonist wants to give something to his girlfriend as her birthday present, but he is worried what would be a suitable present. So he asks this question in Yahoo. But all the four answers he gets are not satisfying.
 
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Toritoribe

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You need to understand that ~ている/くる doesn't always express the same meaning/aspect. It differs depending on the type of the preceding verb or context.

For instance, in a sentence 日本人は昔から米を食べてきた, 食べてきた is a repeated action done by many people. 食べてきた can't be used to express a single action done by a single person (except meaning "to eat, and then come").

On the other hand, 分かってきている refers to an aspect of a single action. The subject is in a process to realize something clearly/completely. This phase of action can't be expressed by 分かった, 分かっている or 分かっていた. For instance, 分かっていた means that the subject already realized it clearly/completely sometime in the past.
分かってきていた shows that they were in the process in the past, and also suggests that they have already realized it clearly/completely now. That's why 分かってきて(は)いた is the most appropriate in your example.

I think this explanation also can be an answer to your question about the difference between the explanation you found and my previous post. There are cases where ~てきた and ~てきていた are almost the same, or only one of them can work.

As for #1, it's OK just あの先生は10年前から英語を教えているそうです。, since 教えている can express repeated action like 食べてきた. See the following examples.

3. 10年前から英語を教えてきたが、今日でそれも終わる。
4. 10年前から英語を教えているが、あんなに発音がきれいな生徒は初めてだ。

The focus is put on a fact that the action has finished in #3, while it's more on "continuing" in #4. However, it's not wrong to use 教えている for #3 and 教えてきた for #4.

And as for #2, it's more common to use 教え始めた to refer to the starting point. That's why your sentence sounds odd.

In conclusion, it differs what expression is the most appropriate depending on many factors like context, the type of the verb etc..
 

zuotengdazuo

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Thank you so much for the detailed explanation.
分かってきていた shows that they were in the process in the past, and also suggests that they have already realized it clearly/completely now.
Doesn’t 分かってきている also have this meaning? If it does, then ベストアンサーがない。強いて言えば四番。というかうすうす分かってきてはいるけれど、ネットに人生の答えはないのだ。also works in the same way?
 

Toritoribe

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分かってきて(は)いる means that they are still in the process, i.e., they are not completely sure that ネットに人生の答えはない yet, so the meaning is different.
 

zuotengdazuo

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「はああ?オヤジからうちに逃げ込んできてる奴が言うセリフかよ?……」
Hi. I have read this sentence. I know this できてる is different from that in 分かってきている because the former is about direction of movement rather than time flows. So what is the nuance conveyed by the 逃げ込んできてる, compared with 逃げ込んできた?
Thank you.
 

Toritoribe

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It's the same as usual "来て(い)る vs. 来た", i.e., 逃げ込んできてる expresses the present state resulting from the past action. The addressee escaped to the speaker's home, and is there now. 逃げ込んできた is just a past event "he/she escaped to there."
 

zuotengdazuo

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Thank you. I should’ve noticed that. I somehow confused 逃げ込んできてる with 分かってきている. 😅
 

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Hi. Sorry for the same topic but I have just come across a sentence that includes a similar pattern.
雪が雨に戻ったのか、窓の外からはふたたび強い雨音が聞こえてきていた
I think this 聞こえてきていた is different from 分かってきていた because 聞こえる is a continuous verb while 分かる is a punctual verb. So how should I understand the てきていた in 聞こえてきていた?
(I think, in terms of 聞こえてきていた, the speaker’s view point is in the past and the speaker began to hear it in the further past in relation to the view point.)
Thank you.
 

Toritoribe

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~てくる indicates the direction of action also here. The sound comes to the speaker. 聞こえてきていた is past progressive.
 

zuotengdazuo

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Thank you, toritoribe-san.
聞こえてきていた is past progressive.
So 聞こえてきていた means it began to rain prior to the speaker’s view point (which is set in the past), and continued, right?
 
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zuotengdazuo

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Thank you for your confirmation.
Can I ask two more questions here?
1. 薄いサッシの窓には何ヶ所かヒビが入っていて、水がちょろちょろと滲み出てきている
I am not sure how to understand this てきている. Does it (てくる/てきて) indicate direction towards the speaker? And ている is present progressive?

2. 道の両脇からも、僕を挟み込むように制服警官たちが駆け寄ってくる
In this example, てくる indicate direction towards the speaker, obviously. So can we use てきている in 2?
 

Toritoribe

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1)
~てくる also can mean "to start/appear/be born/spring up" or along the line, e.g., 生まれてくる, 芽が出てくる, 雨が降ってくる. It would be this meaning.

Incidentally, ~ていく is used for "to vanish/disappear", e.g., 死んでいく, 虹が消えていく, 船が沈んでいく.

2)
Yes, but 駆け寄ってくる would be more common, probably because "on-going action" is not the main point the writer want to convey.
 

zuotengdazuo

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Many thanks.
~てくる also can mean "to start/appear/be born/spring up" or along the line, e.g., 生まれてくる, 芽が出てくる, 雨が降ってくる. It would be this meaning.
Yes, I know this meaning. But when ~てくる is used in this sense, isn’t it more often in the form of 〜てきた, like 滲み出てきた? Is there any difference between 〜てきた and 〜てきている when ~てくる means “to start/appear...”?
Yes, but 駆け寄ってくる would be more common, probably because "on-going action" is not the main point the writer want to convey.
If I get it right, this 駆け寄ってくる already has an "on-going action" nuance (i.e. the police are running up towards me), right?
 

Toritoribe

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Yes, I know this meaning. But when ~てくる is used in this sense, isn’t it more often in the form of 〜てきた, like 滲み出てきた? Is there any difference between 〜てきた and 〜てきている when ~てくる means “to start/appear...”?
Unlike #2, the writer would put focus more on "on-going action". 滲み出てきた is more likely "it has started".

If I get it right, this 駆け寄ってくる already has an "on-going action" nuance (i.e. the police are running up towards me), right?
Yes, that's right.
 

zuotengdazuo

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Thanks again.
Unlike #2, the writer would put focus more on "on-going action". 滲み出てきた is more likely "it has started".
What does the “action” refer to? Does 滲み出てきている mean “it is starting to ooze”? Or should it be “it has started and continues oozing”?
 

zuotengdazuo

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It's "it started sometime in the past, and is oozing", not "it has started".
Thank you. Judging from this meaning, this 滲み出てきている is very similar to 滲み出ている, isn’t it? Or are they the same?
 

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Hmm, comparing 滲み出ている and 滲み出てきている, くる might be more likely for direction. 水がちょろちょろと滲み出ている can be interpreted that the water is oozing out to the outside, if the viewpoint is, for instance, inside of a water tank.
 

zuotengdazuo

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Thank you. So either interpretation would work in this context?
The following are the preceding sentences.
窓の外には、水槽のように水が溜まっている。半地下にある事務所の窓と、外のコンクリートの壁との隙間に、雨水が一メートルほども溜まっているのだ。
The water had built up outside the window and was trickling into the office.
 
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