I have a chance to buy this at a reasonable price. Is it original or a see bee flag.
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- 12 Oct 2013
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The pics are upside down. The big black letters should run horizontally across the top. They say 宇宙輝星軍旗 (Uchū kisei gunki). The horizontal writing reads from right-to-left. I've never seen this slogan on a flag (of any vintage). "Battle Flag of the Shining Star of the Universe". A bit florid for an army flag, but maybe this was a popular expression in WW2 times. The rest are slogans and names.
平和の戦士 Soldier of Peace in largish letters next to the red disk
忠勇義烈 Fierce dedication to loyalty, bravery, righteousness at the bottom of the disk.
九州男子 Men of Kyūshū - kind of a slogan of pride, machismo, for men born in the southern island of Kyūshū . Maybe hinting at the origin of the flag. Left of the disk.
Anyway, its slightly unusual because of the unique slogan at the top. I see no recipient's name on it, which makes it hard to track down any potential surviving relatives. The writing is not particularly good. For me, without a forensic examination of the fibers and pigments on the flag, its impossible to say if its authentic or not. So when evaluating these kinds of flags I personally like to see names and locations, and clear indications of givers and recipients, and a variety of handwriting (showing multiple people signed the flag). Its also nice to see good penmanship, as I'm suspicious of bad, . But that sets the bar fairly high, and not all flags have all of these hallmarks.
So this flag falls outside of my criteria for genuine flags, but the high bar means I probably end up rejecting a few genuine flags here and there. There is a flag posted here on this site just a couple of weeks ago, and it got the thumbs down from me, but it was sent off to a third part for evaluation (Obon Society) and it looks like it may actually be authentic.
平和の戦士 Soldier of Peace in largish letters next to the red disk
忠勇義烈 Fierce dedication to loyalty, bravery, righteousness at the bottom of the disk.
九州男子 Men of Kyūshū - kind of a slogan of pride, machismo, for men born in the southern island of Kyūshū . Maybe hinting at the origin of the flag. Left of the disk.
Anyway, its slightly unusual because of the unique slogan at the top. I see no recipient's name on it, which makes it hard to track down any potential surviving relatives. The writing is not particularly good. For me, without a forensic examination of the fibers and pigments on the flag, its impossible to say if its authentic or not. So when evaluating these kinds of flags I personally like to see names and locations, and clear indications of givers and recipients, and a variety of handwriting (showing multiple people signed the flag). Its also nice to see good penmanship, as I'm suspicious of bad, . But that sets the bar fairly high, and not all flags have all of these hallmarks.
So this flag falls outside of my criteria for genuine flags, but the high bar means I probably end up rejecting a few genuine flags here and there. There is a flag posted here on this site just a couple of weeks ago, and it got the thumbs down from me, but it was sent off to a third part for evaluation (Obon Society) and it looks like it may actually be authentic.
- 6 Mar 2003
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How do sellers guarantee products like this?
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- #6
I will call the Museum tomorrow and ask them where they got the flag from. If its a fake no one has show me anything to conclude this so far. Majestic said his bar for originality is so high he misses original items. If it was a fake why would someone put a slogan on it that you have never seen before? Why not copy or stick with what you have seen or can copy? This flag needs more investigation. I will ask the museum who their authenticatation process is done by. There seems to be a lot of faded writing on it that I know you can not read and will try to get better pictures.
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- #8
Who says they can not translate Japanese? I did not see anywhere that they put up a translation for this flag so why the jump to conclusions? So you can not say they can not translate it, are you saying they did not put up a translation with the flag? If so that does not mean they did not or can not. Maybe they did and just did not put up the translation.
- 12 Oct 2013
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It was a natural assumption since you came here looking for a translation. Or was I mistaken?
Did they translate it and validate it, and yet you came to this site anyway looking for laymen's opinions?
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- #10
You said why does the expert not have the ability to translate. No one put up a translation of any kind on their site for this flag so you are just assuming they can not translate it. If they put up a bad translation you would have a point but putting up no translation is not proof of not being able to translate. I can ask them about it when I call but you are just assuming facts not in evidence. What I came here for is for people to give opinions based on observable fact. Saying their expert can not translate is not a fact at all. Its pure assumption. Natural assumption is still assumption.
- 21 May 2003
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I remember a WWII Marine swapping war stories with my Navy dad (early 60's). He laughed at all the Navy guys who bought the Marine's fake flags they produced by the hundreds. I guess you can call them honest WWII era flags since they were made during that time. Every time someone here asks about a flag here on JREF I wonder about this picture and the story behind it.
- 21 May 2003
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I find it interesting that all these years of questions on swords and flags and uniforms , I don't recall anyone talking about Japanese handguns that were bought back from the war. Every once in a while , I see some for sale here in Maine at gun stores.- Thread starter
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Japanese rifles and hand guns are not nearly as sought after as German or American. The Japanese guns were close to junk. The rifle was more of a club than a rifle and not made well. The hand guns like the Nambu are junk and can be dangerous. The guns also bring a lot less than German, American or even English. I see Arisaka rifles all the time in varying condition for around 2 to 300 dollars. Try finding a K98 for that. Or a Garand, 03a3, or even a Enfield. An Arisaka with a ground mum is even worse for price. I have passed so many of these up just because they are not sought after. K98s on the other hand I have bought for 650 non import and wish I could find them for that now. They run 1200 to 1700 no days. Garands have went way up in price also. Colt, Remington Rand and other 1911a1s have also went way up in value.
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- 21 May 2003
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I always remember ads in American Rifleman in the early 60's selling military surplus 1911's for $39 each. 
The May/June issue of American Handgunner has a good article on the type 14 Nambu. My dad had a nice condition Japanese rifle and decided to bead blast the rust off , LOL. He even did the wooden stock. A great example of what not to do to an old gun.
The May/June issue of American Handgunner has a good article on the type 14 Nambu. My dad had a nice condition Japanese rifle and decided to bead blast the rust off , LOL. He even did the wooden stock. A great example of what not to do to an old gun.
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Blood Stained Japanese Flag Archives
Huge collection of certified-authentic World War II artifacts & relics for sale! Buy genuine Japanese flags & weapons from the Gettysburg Museum of History.
www.gettysburgmuseumofhistory.com
For a location that is so closely associated with the american civil war, I'm amazed that they sell so many war-related items from other places and times. I guess it's not war profiteering, but war history profiteering.
"Genuine blood-stained flags". Stupid, in my opinion. Maybe they should do DNA testing so you can ID the soldier/soldiers whose blood it was?
Unfortunately, they also seem to sell nazi memorabilia, which, in my opinion, should be illegal. (especially so, given some of the current political activities in the US) I wouldn't do any business with them.
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- #17
I regard your whole post as ridiculous and unintelligent. So I will dismiss it outright. If we let everyone who had some opinion on some issue decide what can be bought and sold then nothing would be. Not to mention the Japanese were not really far behind the inhuman treatment of others in the war so don't try to stand on some delusional high ground.
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- 22 Feb 2008
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Well, then, they would mean "it's original souvenir flag made for American soldiers". What's written there really proves it.
- 22 Feb 2008
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Please ask the expert in the Gettysburg National Military Park Museum (you meant this museum by "Gettysberg Museum", right?) with the following question.
この日の丸が戦前あるいは戦時下に実際に日本兵に贈られた実物であると判断した根拠をお教え願えませんか。そこに使われている用語を始めとして、それが実は戦後アメリカ兵へのお土産品として偽造されたものだという推測を覆しうるほどの強力な理由をお持ちでしたら、後学のためにもぜひお聞きしたく思います。
They must understand my Japanese question, I believe.
この日の丸が戦前あるいは戦時下に実際に日本兵に贈られた実物であると判断した根拠をお教え願えませんか。そこに使われている用語を始めとして、それが実は戦後アメリカ兵へのお土産品として偽造されたものだという推測を覆しうるほどの強力な理由をお持ちでしたら、後学のためにもぜひお聞きしたく思います。
They must understand my Japanese question, I believe.
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- #21
Can you tell us the basis for judging that this Hinomaru was actually given to Japan soldiers before or during the war? If you have a strong reason to overturn the assumption that it was actually forged as a souvenir for American soldiers after the war, including the terminology used there, I would love to hear about it for later life. What proof do you have its not real?
- 22 Feb 2008
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It's the words used there, as Majestic-san already pointed out.
宇宙輝皇軍, 平和の戦士, 人の武士, an isolated kanji 盡, grammatical error in the phrase 必ズ生還ヲ期セヨ, etc... Japanese people never wrote these words on real yosegaki hinomaru. (I'm Japanese, by the way.)
宇宙輝皇軍, 平和の戦士, 人の武士, an isolated kanji 盡, grammatical error in the phrase 必ズ生還ヲ期セヨ, etc... Japanese people never wrote these words on real yosegaki hinomaru. (I'm Japanese, by the way.)
- 22 Feb 2008
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Yes, it's no doubt an obvious fake to my native Japanese eyes.
- 6 Mar 2003
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I would ask them what criteria they use to judge authenticity. They should be able to list all the attributes they use and which ones check the boxes and which ones don't.
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