Irregular verbs 問う, 請う and 得る?

[BoxedLunch]

So I know about all the other irregular verbs and how they work, but I've never been able to find consistent, reliable information about 問う, 請う and 得る.

Several sources say that the correct ~た/~て conjugations of 問う and 請う are 問うた/問うて and 請うた/請うて, rather than 問った/問って and 請った/請って. Is this true in all standard Japanese? I know than the osaka dialects tend to conjugate all verbs ending in う in this way, but according to the sources I've been looking at, 問う and 請う conjugate in this way in all Japanese dialects.

As for 得る, I'd like to know all its stems (あ-stem, い-stem, え-stem, お-stem, た-stem, て-stem, and imperative stem). I'd also like to know if the あ-stem is the same for the negative tenses and the theoretical passive and causative tenses. Wikipedia says that 得る's negative conjugation is えない. Does this mean 得る's passive and causative tenses (if it has them) are the irregular えれる and えせる or the regular うられる and うらせる?

 

[rei0429]

問う/請う are old-fashioned expression(but we saw many in written words,not sppken)
We usually use 尋ねる/お願いする and so on instead of these verb.
osaka dialects have no relation in this case.
(買う(buy)→買うた(bought))
得る's passive form is 得られる.
and its negative form is 得られない.
see some example in this blog's middle paragraph (emphasized by red color)

 

[Toritoribe]

So I know about all the other irregular verbs and how they work, but I've never been able to find consistent, reliable information about 問う, 請う and 得る.

Several sources say that the correct ~た/~て conjugations of 問う and 請う are 問うた/問うて and 請うた/請うて, rather than 問った/問って and 請った/請って. Is this true in all standard Japanese? I know than the osaka dialects tend to conjugate all verbs ending in う in this way, but according to the sources I've been looking at, 問う and 請う conjugate in this way in all Japanese dialects.

As for 得る, I'd like to know all its stems (あ-stem, い-stem, え-stem, お-stem, た-stem, て-stem, and imperative stem). I'd also like to know if the あ-stem is the same for the negative tenses and the theoretical passive and causative tenses. Wikipedia says that 得る's negative conjugation is えない. Does this mean 得る's passive and causative tenses (if it has them) are the irregular えれる and えせる or the regular うられる and うらせる?

Good question.
ワ行五段動詞 in Modern Japanese (godan verbs that end in う, e.g., 食う, 吸う) are originated from ハ行四段動詞 (e.g. 食ふ, 吸ふ) in Classical Japanese, and the past form and the -te from of these Classical verbs are 食ひたり/吸ひたり, 食ひて/吸ひて, respectively. As you already know, 促音便[そくおんびん] occurs on these forms, i.e., gemination is added before た and て (e.g. 食った/吸った, 食って/吸って) in (Standard) Modern Japanese.

examples of 促音便 in (Standard) Modern Japanese
食ふ --> 食ひたり --> 食った
吸ふ --> 吸ひて --> 吸って

As you understand correctly, ウ音便 "u-euphoic change" occurs on these forms in Western Japanese dialects instead of 促音便.

examples of ウ音便 in Western Japan
食ふ --> 食ひたり --> 食うた
吸ふ --> 吸ひて --> 吸うて

問うた/問うて and 請うた/請うて are exceptions that ウ音便 occurs also in Eastern Japan, and as the result, in Standard Japanese.


As for 得る, it's neccesary to differenciate える and うる. える is a regular modern ichidan verb, so it conjugates as below.

past: えた
negative: えない
-masu stem: え
-te form : えて
potential/passive: えられる
causative: えさせる
causative passive: えさせられる
-ba conditional: えれば
imperative: えろ/えよ
volitional: えよう

Whereas うる is a remnant of a classical nidan verb う. It conjugates the same as える except the conclusive form (終止形) うる and the -ba conditional うれば.

Incidentally, ALL Modern 下一段[しもいちだん] (-eru ending ichidan) verbs are originated from Classical 下二段[しもにだん] verbs, for instance, 食べる is from 食ぶ, 攻める is from 攻む. This is the main reason why okurigana of 食べる is べる, and not る. たべ seems to be the stem of たべる since たべ doesn't conjugate in Modern Japanese, but actually た is the stem in the viewpoint of Classical Japanese.

Hope this helps to solve your question.