Arab Revolutions

[Abdur Rahman]

And really why would you even use human shields for tanks?

to protect tanks and soldiers from rebels
when they put civilians infront of tanks and soldiers rebels cannot attack tanks
and civilians will be like a wall between army and rebels

 

[Hezam]

We have 2 Shab-biha here.. they think they are doing good.

 

[Blackthorne]

Many groups in the Islamic world have irreconcilable differences with each other and while I think that there's a real desire for real change there I think it's going to be a bit of a challenge to avoid the despotism, foreign meddling, tribalism, etc. that has plagued the area over the last few decades.

 

[Red5]

It is the time for All Arabic countries to be one country, one hand and one belief After removing the germs "rulers" who are agents to west or enemies, not human and their empty beliefs like secular and democracy.

 

[SevenStarsHK2N]

Lol that will never happen.

Not while those in the arab world remain largely uneducated, so easily manipulated and so entirely predictable.

look at red5 for example. ooo we must not give in to the west and secular empty blah blah blah.

yet i would put money on it that he is a supporter of the western baked and US funded "uprising" in Syria.

The arab spring is little more than another chapter in the 30years war between the US and Iran.

But when you see how many people believe the BS behind the Syrian "uprising" and the rest of the arab spring.
It's of no suprise that you are completely dominated by the west.

History will look back and remark on the middle east, that here was a region with so much potential that got well and truly played.

 

[Cikki]

Absolutely the west helped put a number of rulers into power and assisted them. And some states have suffered more than others. However at a certain point people need to stop blaming others and take responsibility for themselves.

I think its been one of the biggest issue with Arab political development: its that so many people blame the West and Israel for everything instead of actually looking for the current causes of their situation. It represents the failure of education in the Arab world. Certainly the publics have high technical education; engineering, math, computers ect. However education in the west also teaches you about the basic rights of being a citizen, civic responsibility, respecting the views of others. Unfortunately in these autocratic states this education does not exist. Instead they emphasized themes of xenophobia, and frankly anti-semetic themes. In order to hide the failings of the autocratic regimes they basically told people: Its the westerners' fault, Its the Jews, israel, ect. anybody but the very people who were actually at fault.

It very encouraging to see people take up the cause to fight for their rights. Its an essential part of a democratic system.However the fall back towards "blaming everybody but ourselves" is discouraging. Egypt faces immense problems with debt and an unsustainable economic system. It will collapse these states far faster than the West ever could.

However what brings people to have mass demonstrations this week? Its not the terrible mismanagement of their societies... rather its some Youtube video made by a idiot in California about Mohammed. While I find these sorts of videos abhorrent, the fact that its the main focus of their anger just shows how immature political thought is. If I was in Egypt and really concerned about my well being, I would be protesting a bloated civil service, corruption and terrible investments, not what some idiot in California made on a shaky video.

Colonialism was a much more important influence into the 1950s... but it has waned since, particularly due to Pan Arabism under Nasser and the decline of Britain and France as great powers. The decisive turning point for me was the 1973 Oil Embargo, which saw the region basically use Oil as a weapon. The west has made terrible choices in supporting autocratic rulers in the region. I don't agree with how palestine has been dealt with at all, then again, blaming all of the problems of the Middle East on that conflict is just another example of passing blame to someone else for your own problems.

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia because it has arguably played an more instrumental role in shaping the region than any other State, western or otherwise... with the possible exception of Egypt. The Sa'uds were in power far before the discovery of oil in 1932, or colonialization of the region. They have been extremely effective at keeping themselves in power and ensuring stability of other monarchies. During the Iran-Iraq war, the KSA was giving one billion dollars a month to help the Iraqi government. It spent almost $600 million a year in Afghanistan. Just last year you saw the Kingdom crush demonstrations in Bahrain. The Sa'ud dynasty has never been a helpless victim: it has been actively shaping its own destiny and that of the region for the past 100 years.

There is a parallel here between China and the Middle East. You see demonstrations in China about Japanese imperialism from the Second World War and how its ruined their lives. How many demonstrations are there about high level corruption. When does it end?




I read quite a bit Hezam; I suspect I've read hundreds of books from all manner of sources on middle eastern history, colonialsm and political theory. Part of my work concerns middle eastern politics, and I've spoken to too many middle eastern scholars and "normal" people to actually count in my travels there. I've written a book and journal article about this topic. I know your viewpoint very well.... I could probably argue it better than you because I've read alot about it. Even so I don't believe that it is a completely valid argument based on the evidence that I have read. So for once consider that maybe, I'm not completely mistaken and that I might have something valuable to say.

I dont agree with all of your statements. But you made a point; Instead of blaming other wholly take a look at yourself, find your shortcomings, work on it by the way watch out external dangers. Easy to say but it works for sure..

---------- Post added at 06:29 ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 ----------

Arab revolutions or Arab spring seems to be promising but it hides an important question behind it. Why it has just started ? I mean if those people were living under oppression and stands for years and years why they've just started to rise ? Because they scare to be arrested? Because they think nothing can be done about this matter?

Im sure untill the time rising starts majority of the people in the world doesnt know what is going on in those countries regarding to oppression and dictatorship. I cant ignore the affect of media about how they show us what they want to but still why it seems as something pop up suddely while it has a great background that processed till now .

So he had to burn himself to show people the limits of oppression??
Why we are waiting till calamity befall on us from each corner?

I dont think it is because of uneducated and easily manipulated people's disabilities..

Is it because of disunity?

Yes exactly.

When you face injustice and want to seek justice you cant find anyone behind you to support. And there is noone that can fullfill the justice. It is because of the disunity among people , because their limited visions they think they will be saved when their eyes are blind to despotism.......Untill it comes back to them as a boomerang.

It is easy to critize and talk is free. Acting upon and living what is true is not a dream but needs devotion and belief.

 

[Cikki]

rebels enteret cities because they are from those cities
then the Syrian army used civilians as human shield
for example when the Army entered my city they took me and my family and all people in my street and put us infront of tanks while tanks was firing on the other parts of the city
and used us as human shield
they put us for 3 hours infront of tanks
that day was the most horrible day in my life

This is horrible indeed. And you mentioned this event nearly one months ago, and still everyday this kind of awfull events are happening even worse and more abhorrent. We are reading everyday a new massacre, killing human is like stepping on a group of bugs. Where is our justice, where is our awareness , our sensibility? The one who is watching apathetically and waiting for their turn is the one who to blame. Today it befalls on you tomorrow who knows to whome it does..

 

[Hezam]

Hudhaifah bin Al-Yaman reported that the Messenger of Allah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam said,

"Prophethood (meaning himself) will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain, then Allah will raise it up wherever he wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood remaining with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, He will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a reign of violently oppressive [The reign of Muslim kings who are partially unjust] rule and it will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, there will be a reign of tyrannical rule and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, Allah will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Then, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood."

Then Hudhaifah said, "The Prophet stopped speaking." [As-Silsilah As-Sahihah, vol. 1, no. 5]

And the revolution is the first step to return the Islamic Khilafah.

 

[alecgraham]

I was excited about the Arab spring, and I dislike the fact that my country has supported oppressive dictators like Mubarak. Unfortunately, Morsi is shaping up to be another dictator. We'll see how this plays out, but here come the protestors.

BBC News - Egypt crisis: Morsi supporters and opponents to rally

Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood movement has called a rally to counter opposition protests.

Anti-Morsi activists clashed with police on Tuesday and say they will continue their protests.

They have been protesting against a controversial draft constitution and President Morsi's decree granting himself wide-ranging new powers.

 

[Hezam]

I was excited about the Arab spring, and I dislike the fact that my country has supported oppressive dictators like Mubarak. Unfortunately, Morsi is shaping up to be another dictator. We'll see how this plays out, but here come the protestors.

BBC News - Egypt crisis: Morsi supporters and opponents to rally

Please don't judge him before you read the new constitution, Morsi is leading the last battle against Mubarak's regime.

=

 

[Abdur Rahman]

Now Egypt has the highest level of freedom in Middle east and north Africa

 

[alecgraham]

Please don't judge him before you read the new constitution, Morsi is leading the last battle against Mubarak's regime.

I'll try my best, but I think it was a little scary when I tried to take judges' powers away. But, don't take my word for it; look at the people on the street.

 

[Haziq]

that might be in the arab countries but in my country for example people are sick with the western democracy and stuff the middle class that is because all of the seculars are corrupt and people just want to get rid of this system.but thats probably mostly because most people in my country are very religious.anyway muslims no matter where they live eventually get very close to their religion after a very long secular etc kind of time.

 

[alecgraham]

I'll try my best, but I think it was a little scary when I tried to take judges' powers away. But, don't take my word for it; look at the people on the street.

A bit late to edit my post, but of course I meant he (Morsi). I never tried to take the judges' powers away myself.

 

[Hezam]

A bit late to edit my post, but of course I meant he (Morsi). I never tried to take the judges' powers away myself.

Morsi should put that corrupted judge in jail for the rest of his life, He is the other face of Mubarak and he is still fighting against the revolution.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

I would hate to live under any theocracy, no matter what the religion. I believe in free exercise of religion, including the right to be an atheist, and that can't happen under a theocracy.

But if people in other countries wish to live differently, that's their right.

In the US, federal judges are nominated by the president and must be approved by Congress. That makes two branches of government that have to accept a judge's qualifications and impartiality. Once appointed, a judge may not be removed except for crimes or serious breach of ethics.

I like this system, but then, it's the one I'm used to.

 

[Hezam]

.

In the US, federal judges are nominated by the president and must be approved by Congress.

The congress is one of the biggest problems in the United States, It's a pure extremist religious institution that has the upper hand in the united stats.

 

[nahadef]

The congress is one of the biggest problems in the United States, It's a pure extremist religious institution that has the upper hand in the united stats.

This is a joke, right? A guy who thinks the Koran is a basis for making law is against the "pure extremist religious" U.S. congress. If it's not a joke, it's extremely ironic.

 

[Hezam]

This is a joke, right? A guy who thinks the Koran is a basis for making law is against the "pure extremist religious" U.S. congress. If it's not a joke, it's extremely ironic.

What a surprise ! Are you shocked ?

 

[nahadef]

What a surprise ! Are you shocked ?

No, that's not worth being shocked over. But it does establish you as a hypocrite, and gives solid reason to deride every post you make in the future until you make a public recantation of your ways.

Simply put, anyone who thinks a Muslim-government is great, while a Christian-government is objectionable is a hypocrite, and one of the problems in the world today. Someone thinking the opposite would be an equal problem. I hope you grow up one day.

 

[Hezam]

Your opinion and you are free with it, Let's stop here and stay on topic.

 

[nahadef]

Hezam's Topic

Your opinion and you are free with it, Let's stop here and stay on topic.

You brought up the fact of the "pure extremist religious" American congress. Are you dictating to me not point that out?

You're free to your opinion, even when it is blatantly hypocritical. What does Allah say about hypocrites?

 

[noyhauser]

This is a joke, right? A guy who thinks the Koran is a basis for making law is against the "pure extremist religious" U.S. congress. If it's not a joke, it's extremely ironic.

Not only is it ironic, its just not true.

If the US government was run by religious extremists, I really doubt that an openly gay man who married his partner last year would be able to rise to one of the highest positions in government and write one of the most critical pieces of financial legislation in the past 40 years (Barney Frank). You have muslims, atheists, catholics, gays and lesbians among others. ITs just a ridiculous claim.


Hezam, what's shocking to me is how you come on here and purport to tell us how we don't understand anything and we're deluded, when so many of your posts are so absolutely ignorant of the world, and obviously just pure propaganda. Its the Jewish conspiracy, the religious conspiracy, its new Christian crusade, or an anti-arab conspiracy.

I think alot of people in the west would never claim our governments are perfect and they require a lot of work. Yet what disappoints me so is that views like what you represent here are actually being believed by people in the middle east and form the basis of peoples' views. Its really sad and it makes me fear for the future of your fledgling democracies. If your and others' idea of an ideal state is a Theocracy that believes in this conspiracy crap, then its going to make the last 50 years with these autocratic rulers look like a golden age compared to what is coming.

 

[Hezam]

I wanted to say [ Extremist Zionists ] instead of [ Religious extremists ], My bad english cases so many freakin mistakes that lead to misunderstanding. Sorry..

noyhauser, Can you please explain to me some points from your own view :
- The European American absolute commitment to support Israel ( even if it means to sacrifice their interests ).
- the European American Wars in the Muslim world ( Bush declared a crusade Literally ).
- The Zionist Lobby in the U.S ( Congress for example ).
- the Western position from Muslims ( especially the American gov position ).

 

[nahadef]

I wanted to say [ Extremist Zionists ] instead of [ Religious extremists ], My bad english cases so many freakin mistakes that lead to misunderstanding. Sorry..

Same thing, but even less intelligent. Muslim politics are good in your view, other religions bad. Hypocrite.
It's not mistakes that lead to misunderstanding, it's your distorted views.

noyhauser, Can you please explain to me some points from your own view :
- The European American absolute commitment to support Israel ( even if it means to sacrifice their interests ).
- the European American Wars in the Muslim world ( Bush declared a crusade Literally ).
- The Zionist Lobby in the U.S ( Congress for example ).
- the Western position from Muslims ( especially the American gov position ).

Bush is literally a stupid person. He didn't know there was a difference between Sunnis and Shiites. He didn't declare a crusade. He didn't know what he was talking about. I think he was a terrible leader and a terrible person, but you're wrong if that's why you think he was bad.
As for Zionists... jeez, really. It's joke, thinking that a cabal of Jewish people want to rule the world for their kingdom. It's so clownish. Not even worth explaining to you, since you'll have another pile of conspiracies to explain it away. You'll see what you want to see, and you have personal problems with Jewish people, so you'll always see them as the problem.