The gay gene

[abdalrasyid]

The matter of sexual orientation--asexual, heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual generally build for the most part in the womb.

What is your evidence Mars Man? If your statement are corect then sexual orientation can be recognize by modern assesment tools since pregnancy. As i recall the existence of homosexual gene itself being negate and refute here and there. And there also some-institution who withdrawing their claim because lack of evidence.

 

[Mars Man]

What is your evidence Mars Man?

Ok, let me pull that back out, then...and get back later today, or tomorrow.

If your statement are corect then sexual orientation can be recognize by modern assesment tools since pregnancy.

My statement is true, yet I'd like to ask if I could please get you to rephrase the latter part of your sentence here, I cannot quite tell what you more precisely had in mind when writing it. Do you mean to say that ' modern tools which can be used to assess ones sexual orientation before pregnancy comes full term are on the market?'

As I had explained in my post (and it may have been missed) there are two points which play major roles in sexual orientation, one is the hormonal distribution during gonad formation, and during puberty development (which is of course after birth), and the other is exactly brain build (which, as far as I know, can kind of be picked up with MRI, PET, and two-postron emission testing--and there was one new method of brain viewing but can't recall that at the moment).

However, since it is not until after around postconception week 30 that we get corticocortical interconnectivity, there is really no way to get anywhere near an idea of a person's sexual orientation; and this is a fact.

As i recall the existence of homosexual gene itself being negate and refute here and there. And there also some-institution who withdrawing their claim because lack of evidence.

We have to be careful, not only in our reading habits, but in our research habits as well. Using the word 'gene' in the singular is simply nonsense. It is a countable noun, and does have a plural form, viz. genes.

Genes play a BIG role in building bodies and organs, and their functions. Genes are also acted upon by those bodies and environmental factors/influences. As I have said before, and will say again and again (until it is more properly understood) to use the verbatim statement, "There is no gay gene," as a point-in-case to argue against the reality of natural homosexual orientation, is a fallacy, and has absolutely NO credence in the field of inquiry.

That not all members of any sexual orientation are such by natural build/state, is of course true too. The point is that there are a number of reasons, a multitude of players involved, and thus to put total causation on only one, is where the problem lies.


Reference material for the above...in short (Other later, as said above)

Kostovic, I., and Juda M. (2009) Early Development of Neuronal Circuitry of the Human Prefrontal Cortex. IN: Gazzaniga (ed.) The Cognitive Neurosciences 4th Ed., pp 29-47. MIT Press.

Geidd, Jay N. (2010) The Teen Brain: Primed to Learn, Primed to Take Risks. IN: Gordon (ed.) Cerebrum--Emerging Ideas in Brain Science, pp 62-70. Dana Press.

Casy, B.J., Jones, R.M., and Hare, T.A. (2008) The Adolescent Brain. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences Vol. 1124, pp 111-126.

Fields, Douglas R. (2009) Sex and the Secret Nerve. Scientific American Mind 20(3), pp 32-39.

Cahill, Larry (2009) His Brain, Her Brain. ibid., pp 40-47.

Epstein, Robert (2009) Do Gays Have a Choice? ibid., pp 62-69.

Imperato-McGinley, J., and Zhu, Yuan-Shan (2002) Gender and Behavior in Subjects with Genetic Defects in Male Sexual Differentiation. IN: Hormones, Brain, and Behavior Vol 5, pp 303-345. San Diego: Academic Press (Elsevier).

McGinnis, M.Y., Marcelli, M., and Lamb, D.J. (2002) Consequences of Mutations in Androgen Receptor Genes: Molecular Biology and Behavior. ibid., pp 347-379. San Diego: Academic Press (Elsevier).

Rhen, Turk, and Crews, David (2008) Why Are There Two Sexes? IN: Becker, Jill B., Berkely Karen J., Geary, Nori, Hampson, Elizabeth, Hermann, James, and Young, Elizabeth A. (eds.) Sex Differences in the Brain--From Genes to Behavior, pp 3-14. New York: Oxford University Press.

McCarthy, Margaret M., and Arnold, Arthur P. (2008) Sex Differences in the Brain: What's Old and What's New? ibid., pp 15-33. New York: Oxford University Press.

Kline-Fath, Beth, and Bitters, Constance (2007) Prenatal Imaging. Newborn & Infant Nursing Reviews 7(4), pp 197-204.

Girard, Nadine, et al. (2009) Fetal Magnetic Resonance Imaging of Acquired and Developmental Brain Anomalies. Seminars In Perinatology (forgot to take note of volume number and issue) pp 234-250.

Miller, Geoffrey (2000) The Mating Mind--How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature. New York: Random House.

Diamond, Jared (1998) Why Is Sex Fun? The Evolution of Human Sexuality. New York: Phoenix.

 

[Emoni]

I'm going to have to back up Mars Man on his statement about a great deal of homosexuality being shown to be originating from prior to birth. I haven't gone through the massive amount of text and am over loaded with research right now, but the best example I can think of to support Mars Man's statement is that women who have male children in succession are more and more likely to have a gay male child as the number of male children increase. The reason for this was theorized to be that male hormones are viewed to be as a threat and the fetus as an invading force in the woman's body. At least those were the initial conclusions I believe. I wish I could remember the exact link for this.

The amount of homosexual behavior, not just in humans, but all throughout the animal kingdom, makes a strong argument for homosexual behavior to actually be a very "natural" occurrence. There have been numerous Natural Geographic specials on such behavior and its function.

 

[bruno]

Hyogo junior high school to accept gender identity disorder child as female student
HIMEJI -- A junior high school in Hyogo Prefecture will accept an 11-year-old elementary school boy with gender identity disorder (GID) as a female student from next spring, a regional board of education has announced.
The child has been attending a local elementary school as a girl since the first year, and no students at the school are believed to know about the child's disorder.
As the student is going through the development of secondary sexual characteristics such as facial hair and a deeper voice, the local board of education has set up a support team to provide necessary assistance to the child.
According to the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology, it is unusual for elementary and junior high schools to take a collaborative approach in taking care of a student with GID, though during the last academic year an elementary school boy in Saitama Prefecture and a female junior high school student in Kagoshima Prefecture were allowed to change their gender classification at school to the opposite of their sex at birth.
The boy in Hyogo Prefecture was diagnosed with GID at the age of six. He had been attending swimming classes in a girl's swimsuit.
As he moves up to junior high school next spring, the local board of education in September decided that it will continue to keep the child designated as a girl in his class registry. Education officials are also planning to let him abstain from attending swimming classes.
Last month, local education officials launched a task force to address problems associated with students with GID, while setting up the support team to provide direct assistance to the student at the same time.
"We would like to enhance our support system for the student as soon as possible so that the child can feel comfortable at the junior high school," said a member of the educational board.
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20101201p2a00m0na018000c.html
(Mainichi Japan) December 1, 2010

 

[Nuala]

Hyogo junior high school to accept gender identity disorder child as female student
HIMEJI -- A junior high school in Hyogo Prefecture will accept an 11-year-old elementary school boy with gender identity disorder (GID) as a female student from next spring, a regional board of education has announced.
The child has been attending a local elementary school as a girl since the first year, and no students at the school are believed to know about the child's disorder.
As the student is going through the development of secondary sexual characteristics such as facial hair and a deeper voice, the local board of education has set up a support team to provide necessary assistance to the child.
According to the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology, it is unusual for elementary and junior high schools to take a collaborative approach in taking care of a student with GID, though during the last academic year an elementary school boy in Saitama Prefecture and a female junior high school student in Kagoshima Prefecture were allowed to change their gender classification at school to the opposite of their sex at birth.
The boy in Hyogo Prefecture was diagnosed with GID at the age of six. He had been attending swimming classes in a girl's swimsuit.
As he moves up to junior high school next spring, the local board of education in September decided that it will continue to keep the child designated as a girl in his class registry. Education officials are also planning to let him abstain from attending swimming classes.
Last month, local education officials launched a task force to address problems associated with students with GID, while setting up the support team to provide direct assistance to the student at the same time.
"We would like to enhance our support system for the student as soon as possible so that the child can feel comfortable at the junior high school," said a member of the educational board.
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20101201p2a00m0na018000c.html
(Mainichi Japan) December 1, 2010

Ahh, it makes me want to cry when local government doesn't compound the immense feelings of self doubt/loathing that someone is already feeling due to no fault of their own. Texas once again makes me sick.. You know, lord, I've googled "transsexual student refused" and too many results came up. I know there's a case where a transsexual student was even refused entry into a school on account of "cross dressing". I just can't find it at the moment.

Anyways, if we take a shot at being able to eliminate homosexuality in the womb, what would be done about transsexual people? If this elimination of the gay gene were to prove unsuccessful, and let's say a child grows up, turns out to be homosexual, despite their family's attempt to meddle too far into their child's life, what would happen at that point? I mean, we go for the concept of being able to choose our child's sexuality(Which to me is a tad too far and perverse for my tastes. Considering it's NOT OUR BUSINESS what our children become in terms of who they are as an individual). Would we then brainwash our children into thinking they're heterosexual? That's already been done, so why can't we let people be people, and worry about something more important, such as devising a new economic/social structure to fit the new mankind that we're becoming with every new generation?

I mean, seriously, who gives a damn who people want to be? Gender is not binary, and sexuality goes beyond the basic need for our species to reproduce and evolve. If homosexuality makes you feel all angry and tingly inside, why not see a therapist to work out those issues instead of oppressing an already hurting group of people? Anything else just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Yukiko chan]

Whether I end up in a heterosexual or a homosexual relationship, I'd prefer to adopt, thus I would most probably not have the opportunity to choose the sexual orientation of my child, not that I want to in the first place. But if I had to choose (and had the possibility to), I'd vote for "bisexual" as they'd have a wider range of choice of partners.

 

[Kaelus]

I couldn't care less if my children were strait or gay. By assuming or even giving into the thought that there is a gay gene, people might as well say that we don't have souls. If everything that is a preference and everything that makes us who we are is predetermined in the womb, then we are nothing more than flesh robots. Spiritualism would be rendered a falsehood and there would be even less point to any life that has ever lived.

If and when I have children, They will be who they are and I have no right to take that away from them.

 

[token]

I have no children but if I had I don't think I'd care as long as I don't get disappointed in the grandchildren department... I'm sure when I get old that I'd be one of those grumpy grandfathers that insist on having minions... I mean grandchildren

On a side note... if it was something I could turn on/off on others then I'd definately make the world gay!!

 

[Nuala]

I have no children but if I had I don't think I'd care as long as I don't get disappointed in the grandchildren department... I'm sure when I get old that I'd be one of those grumpy grandfathers that insist on having minions... I mean grandchildren

On a side note... if it was something I could turn on/off on others then I'd definately make the world gay!!

Fo sho, I think the world would be less pretentious. My lord, can you imagine it? Discriminating against a group of people due to their genes before they're born? Wretched, most assuredly wretched. Such an act would be the epitome of evil.

 

[Coffeesan]

I would say undecided. British society is far more accepting of homosexuality than it was say.. 20 years ago I know if my son/daughter grew up today they wouldnt be bullied ''very badly''. However If I was having a kid even 10 years ago I would definately strait as I wouldnt like them to live in suffering through their childhood.

Another thing is mabye if it was my first child I would choose definately strait. The reason being my son/daughter could spread their genes on and carry on our family. With a gay son or daughter that wouldnt be possible. Tricky choice really but for me it would never be down to having a normal or ''abnormal'' son or daughter as to me they would always be the same as they should be.