The Question Of Slang

[Imposter253]

Hello all! I'm new! So lets get down to it: I'm trying to translate a comic from japanese to english and I'm having fun trying to translate the slang, colloquialisms, idioms and general syntax of informal speech. Here are some words I can't find in any dictionary but seem to hold some intrinsic meaning to the story:
モン
"...まあいい"
Here are some phrases I can't really translate (though in theory I somewhat recognize the form):
"そんなモン見りゃわかるだろ？"
"店長から電話きたぞ"
手伝えますか？出来る、手伝うを下さい。

 

[Ashikaga]

Hello all! I'm new! So lets get down to it: I'm trying to translate a comic from japanese to english and I'm having fun trying to translate the slang, colloquialisms, idioms and general syntax of informal speech. Here are some words I can't find in any dictionary but seem to hold some intrinsic meaning to the story:
モン
"...まあいい"
Here are some phrases I can't really translate (though in theory I somewhat recognize the form):
"そんなモン見りゃわかるだろ？"
"店長から電話きたぞ"
手伝えますか？出来る、手伝うを下さい。

In order for me to give you the correct translations, I need to see them in contexts.

For example, まあいい could be translated in several ways.

*That's alright/OK.
*It doesn't matter.
*Forget it.
etc.

もん is the colloquial form of もの in this case.
そんなもの(もん)見れば(見りゃ)わかるだろう？ ＝ Can't you see (understand it) just by looking at it? or Can't you guess just by the looks of it?

So, I guess what you want is something in the line of "Isn't it obvious!?".

店長から電話きたぞ literally means "A call from the store manager came (The store manager called)".
However, depending on the context, it could very well be that the manager is calling you NOW and the phone is ringing and you're saying, looking at the phone, "Oh, this must be the store manager!".

 

[Imposter253]

Thank you very much for your help. I will probably be calling up on it again. For example right now:

What does it mean to put "って" at the end of a "-ます" form? e.g. "んな事は分かりますって！"
also
How would one translate the following somewhat awkward line "お前 胸に手え当ててよーく考えてみろ"
I get something like "I thought it would be good if your hand struck my chest" but I'm confused as to the double て's

 

[Aurura]

Wow, this is very good for me to read -- helps me to understand these phrases even better, too. Thank you, Ashikaga san, for explaining these questions, and thank you Imposter253 san for asking'em!

 

[grapefruit]

Thank you very much for your help. I will probably be calling up on it again. For example right now:
What does it mean to put "って" at the end of a "-ます" form? e.g. "んな事は分かりますって！"

って must be a colloquial form of といえば (といえば>てば>って).
It attaches to the end of a sentence or a noun phrase to attract the attention of the listener, according to Koojien (広辞苑), a Japanese dictionary.

Koojien lists other examples like the following:
「お母さんってば」
「早く来いってば」
「しいっ、静かにってば」

 

[grapefruit]

How would one translate the following somewhat awkward line "お前 胸に手え当ててよーく考えてみろ"
I get something like "I thought it would be good if your hand struck my chest" but I'm confused as to the double て's

胸に手をあてる literally means to put one's hand to his heart. It is a Japanese saying, meaning "clam down and think well." It is often used for scolding to suggest someone to try to listen to or figure out what one's heart is really telling, what the true is, how things should be done, etc.

What you referred to as the double て's is the te-form of あてる, あてて. So, the sentence would be like "You should listen to your heart and think well."

 

[Imposter253]

Thank you, I read 当て as とうて

 

[Toritoribe]

In addition to grapefruit-san's explanation, って can be replaced also to ったら, and sometimes shows that the speaker is irrited.

(言われなくてもそ)んな事は分かりますって/ってば/ったら！
I can easily understand such a thing! (so you don't need to tell me that!)

「お母さんってば」
「早く来いってば」
「しいっ、静かにってば」

In examples above from 広辞苑, the first and third one might not be able to be replaced to って.

×お母さん、お母さんって
×しいっ、静かにって

The latter sounds like hearsay.

 

[grapefruit]

In addition to grapefruit-san's explanation, って can be replaced also to ったら, and sometimes shows that the speaker is irrited.
(言われなくてもそ)んな事は分かりますって/ってば/ったら！
I can easily understand such a thing! (so you don't need to tell me that!)
In examples above from 広辞苑, the first and third one might not be able to be replaced to って.
×お母さん、お母さんって
×しいっ、静かにって
The latter sounds like hearsay.

I agree. The first one does sound like hearsay. But, the third one is often used. For example, a mother in conversation with her friend on the phone might say something like that when her conversation is interrupted by the noise made her child nearby.

 

[Toritoribe]

I agree. The first one does sound like hearsay. But, the third one is often used. For example, a mother in conversation with her friend on the phone might say something like that when her conversation is interrupted by the noise made her child nearby.

It depends on the context (including the intonation/accent/stress), as always.
But I prefer 静かにっ/静かにってば/静かにったら！ than 静かにって in that situation. I thought it's something like 委員長's words "しいっ、(先生が)静かにって".

 

[Ashikaga]

I was thinking...

When I hear ～たら/～てば, the first use that comes into my head is,

もう～grapefruitったら/てば、またあんなDVD見てる！
grapefruitの変態！

How would you explain the use of ～たら there?
Now, come to think of it, I can't think of a way to explain the use of の in the second sentence either...lol

Your insights, please!

 

[grapefruit]

もう～grapefruitったら/てば、またあんなDVD見てる！
grapefruitの変態！

もう足利さんったら, こんな文を例に挙げるなんて...

How would you explain the use of ～たら there?
Now, come to think of it, I can't think of a way to explain the use of の in the second sentence either...lol
Your insights, please!

I wonder too. Colloquial expressions are so fascinating!

 

[Imposter253]

While on that matter, Explaining to a pen-pal in japan about an american band, he sent the following response: 都市の名前なのは分かるのですが...^ ^U

Asking my former Japanese tutor I get the following response (which her Japanese friend translated for her): "I know what this means is the name of the city, but I don't know the details."

Can a language truly produce such an esoteric phrase? What could this possibly mean? Is it a southern thing? The guy is from Shikoku .

 

[Imposter253]

While on that matter, Explaining to a pen-pal in japan about an American band, he sent the following response: 都市の名前なのは分かるのですが...^ ^U
Asking my former Japanese tutor I get the following response (which her Japanese friend translated for her): "I know what this means is the name of the city, but I don't know the details."
Can a language truly produce such an esoteric phrase? What could this possibly mean? Is it a southern thing? The guy is from Shikoku.

 

[Toritoribe]

I was thinking...
When I hear ～たら/～てば, the first use that comes into my head is,
もう～grapefruitったら/てば、またあんなDVD見てる！
grapefruitの変態！
How would you explain the use of ～たら there?
Now, come to think of it, I can't think of a way to explain the use of の in the second sentence either...lol
Your insights, please!

Whmmm, tough to explain, indeed.

As for の in that sentence structure, it precedes only nouns, and seems to be used only when bad-mouthing.
e.g.
○○ちゃんのいじわる！
○○君のバカ！
クララの弱虫！

On the other hand, ってば/ったら can precede both adjectives, verbs, and nouns, and is used when praising.
e.g.
○○ちゃんってば/ったらすご～い！
○○君ってば/ったら冴えてる！
○○ってば/ったら天才！

Plus, ってば/ったら can be omitted, whereas の can't be.

While on that matter, Explaining to a pen-pal in japan about an american band, he sent the following response: 都市の名前なのは分かるのですが...^ ^U

Asking my former Japanese tutor I get the following response (which her Japanese friend translated for her): "I know what this means is the name of the city, but I don't know the details."

Can a language truly produce such an esoteric phrase? What could this possibly mean? Is it a southern thing? The guy is from Shikoku.

No, that's a standard Japanese. The particle は implies "only" in that sentence.

(これが/それが)都市の名前なのは分かるのですが...
I only know that that is the name of the city, but...(something like "I don't know the details" would follow it, as your tutor's friend interpreted.)

 

[Glenn]

As for の in that sentence structure, it precedes only nouns, and seems to be used only when bad-mouthing.
e.g.
○○ちゃんのいじわる！
○○君のバカ！
クララの弱虫！

On the other hand, ってば/ったら can precede both adjectives, verbs, and nouns, and is used when praising.
e.g.
○○ちゃんってば/ったらすご～い！
○○君ってば/ったら冴えてる！
○○ってば/ったら天才！

Plus, ってば/ったら can be omitted, whereas の can't be.

This one gave me problems for a while, because I didn't understand why the order wasn't reversed, but I finally settled on it being like the structure "the bully that is ○○ちゃん," "the ***** that is ○○君," and "the weakling that is クララ" in English (although those are all pretty unnatural). I get it now, but it still doesn't make sense to me structurally.

 

[grapefruit]

Could these expressions be related to the function of 同格 that the particle の has? For instance, such expressions as 弟の三郎、クマのプーさん signal equaling relationships between 弟 and 三郎 and くま and プーさん.

 

[Glenn]

That was how I was intrepreting it, basically as である: 弟である三郎 and 熊であるプーさん. That's as far as the meaning goes, that is. I'm aware である isn't used much like this outside of formal, written language, and that it doesn't have the ○○ちゃんの馬鹿 usage.

 

[grapefruit]

According to 日本語文型辞典
Noun + ったら is often used in casual speech to signal intimacy, tease, reproach, criticism, and worry. It is often used by children and women.
Examples:
１．太郎ったら、女の子の前で赤くなってるわ

２．
Ａ：松井さん昔は本当に小さくて可愛かったけど、今はすっかりいいお母さんだね。
Ｂ：まあ先生ったら。小学校を卒業してからもう２０年ですもの。

３．
Ａ：このカレンダーの赤丸なんだったかな。
Ｂ：もうあなたったら忘れたの。私たちの結婚記念日じゃありませんか。

４．多恵子ったら、どうしたのかしら。いくら呼んでも返事がないけど。

５．お母さんったら。ちゃんと話を聞いてよ。

Also according to 日本語文型辞典,
Noun + ってば is used to emphasize one's claim in conversation with someone close. It is often used when the speaker is irritated by a situation where his/her assertion is not taken up. Also, this expression can be used to draw the listener's attention. Examples are as follow:
1.
Ａ：この字、間違ってるんじゃないか？
Ｂ：あってるよ。
Ａ：いや、絶対、間違ってるってば
２．
Ａ：宿題やったの？
Ｂ：うん。
Ａ：もう9時よ。
Ｂ：やったってば。
３．
Ａ：お母さん。
Ｂ：．．．
Ａ：お母さんってば。聞いてるの？