The conversation's different here.

[Noppin]

I'm a highschool exchange student from the Washington DC area, and I'm having a few problems.

I'd say that I'm a pretty good conversationalist.

...In America.

I've been in Japan for about two months now, and I'm having some trouble keeping up a decent conversation. I did study Japanese for two and a half years before coming, so I can get the gist of most things. Problem is, I don't really have enough vocabulary to be interesting. I still can't be funny in Japanese, not only because I don't have enough vocabulary, but also because I don't really understand Japanese humor. Even when I do understand it, I don't think it's that funny.

Sorry for the hodgepodge post, but I'm currently experiencing a little language confusion.

If anybody could give me some tips on conversation, Japanese humor, or vocabluary building exercises, I'd really appreciate it.

Also,ﾂ tips on how to talk to the girls here would be nice...

I was fine in America, but Japanese girls are different...

 

[basuotoko]

That's very interesting that you're a high school exchange student. I studied in Japan for a year through a university exchange program, but high school must be a whole different world.

I think it tends to take a long time to pick up on the cultural nuances that create humor, I mean, even if you can speak Japanese fairly well, it will probably take a long time to become genuinely funny. But you're not alone in your disappointment of Japanese humor. I feel the same way. Sometimes I tell myself that maybe I need more time in order to appreciate it, but when I see the comedians on TV and the generally juvenile attitude of the people around me at the izakaya, I feel like that's one part of Japanese culture that I'll never really fit in to.

That's not to say I don't enjoy my time or get on well with my friends here. I think as you get to know your friends better, you'll kind of work out a mutual sense of humor. So all I can really suggest is to keep trying, and everything will probably sort itself out naturally in time.

 

[misa.j]

Hi Noppin, welcome to the forum!

I think humor is one of the hardest things to master in non-native language. I've been in America for 7 years, but I still get frustrated when I want to say something funny but end up thinking about it for too long and miss the opportunity. Especially when each person has their own sense of humor; some might find humors in sarcasm or satire; other will like slapstick jokes, you'd have to know about the person you are talking to well enough to make them laugh.

I can kind of guess that Japanese high school students' humor is pretty childish and lame, so I understand your confusion.

 

[Anohito]

Hi Noppin, welcome to the forum!
[snip]
I can kind of guess that Japanese high school students' humor is pretty childish and lame, so I understand your confusion.

From what I have observed, American high school students' humor is pretty childish and lame. Unfortunately, I could say the same thing about American college students and even many older people. However, even in the so-called "good old days" things weren't really better. I went to high school from 1959-1960, and the general standard of humor among the students was definitely childish and lame.

To address the the original post, it might be a good idea to watch some Japanese television comedies or some movie comedies, if you can follow spoken Japanese well enough to justify the expenditures. I can tell you that various forms of word-play are quite popular in Japan, and seem to be an integral part of the culture, although it would be difficult to put that sort of thing into actual practice.

 

[Elizabeth]

I'm a highschool exchange student from the Washington DC area, and I'm having a few problems.
I'd say that I'm a pretty good conversationalist.
...In America.
I've been in Japan for about two months now, and I'm having some trouble keeping up a decent conversation. I did study Japanese for two and a half years before coming, so I can get the gist of most things. Problem is, I don't really have enough vocabulary to be interesting. I still can't be funny in Japanese, not only because I don't have enough vocabulary, but also because I don't really understand Japanese humor. Even when I do understand it, I don't think it's that funny.
Sorry for the hodgepodge post, but I'm currently experiencing a little language confusion.
If anybody could give me some tips on conversation, Japanese humor, or vocabluary building exercises, I'd really appreciate it.
Also, tips on how to talk to the girls here would be nice...
I was fine in America, but Japanese girls are different...

You seem to be saying that the students at your school at least are somehow not as sophisticated in their humor or skilled with language and conversational ability as what you've been used to in the West ? For sure there is less "edgy" humor, sarcasm, satire or joke telling in general....that I can completely agree on.

Sorry if I need more specifics to be of help but am reluctant to read too much into the other parts....

 

[FrustratedDave]

Here is a joke for you. ﾂ"窶堋?窶堙ｩﾆ蓄ﾆ谷ﾆ停?懌?堙個湘｣ﾆ但ﾆ停?ｹﾆ蓄ﾆ谷ﾆ停?慊"=ﾂ aru mikan no ue aru mikan.
Look up the word "dajyare".

 

[bakaKanadajin]

Generally the 'new kid' or exchange student in any situation doesn't immediately fit in, don't get too discouraged. Young people are cliquey, even if you suddenly grew a perfect Japanese sense of humour overnight this would not necessarily net you the responses you wanted from your peers, you may still find it hard to relate.

I think the one thing that cuts through all the BS in any group is a clear desire to learn and to be yourself. Your original post was very thoughtful and I think if you just learn from your new friends, gradually implement your newly learned material and don't "try too hard" you'll find the progress feels better and more natural rather than looking up a whole bunch of stuff that may or not may be cool and throwing it out there cold turkey. If you did that you might even offend someone accidentally.

You've only been at it for 2 months and by the sound of it you're making decent conversation already (even if it's not funny.) Just keep up the good work! Imagine what a well-received exchange student would be like back home in America.. he wouldn't necessarily be the life of the party, he'd be a good guy that learned from his buddies and just acted himself.

As for the women, there are as many answers to that as there are girls in your circle, there is no formula. Generally young girls will be young girls, they like bad boys, a little mystery, but they ultimately respond well to a good character. So again just be yourself, smile but play your cards closely and be kind.

Ganbatte ne!

 

[diceke]

Humor doesn't have to be verbal, try non-verbal humor.

 

[Elizabeth]

Humor doesn't have to be verbal, try non-verbal humor.

Yeah, never underestimate the power of cuteness by daring to be slightly goofy in Japanese culture. Much more appreciated than the odd one out putting their cleverness above the feelings and interests of their peers.

Laughing, at least smiling a little, when everyone else does is a good start towards showing an appreciation for the culture, whether you really understand it now or not...

 

[yukio_michael]

Sorry for the hodgepodge post, but I'm currently experiencing a little language confusion.

When I was living in Japan I found that the language itself, and the expressions of tv talent were often focal points of my humor... A lot of humor is interpretive, and my friends found it inerested what they might have taken for granted being that they see it all of the time... For example, if you watch night-time television, something that in itself takes a sturdy constitution to get through the relentless repeats and immitation....

For example, I would always say that I was going to be a gaijin tv-talent one day (the skillless slobs who's claim to fame is their ability to speak Japanese (or pretend not to be able to) and their foreignness who some gaijin seem to envy for their seemingly cake-walk jobs)... I would take a bite of something to eat, stop, look at my ex or her friends, with my eyes wide open and say something like umai, oishii~~!, or the ever-popular maiu, which is simply a play on umai which seems to have been popularized by Papaya Sazuki...

Sometimes I would talk in overtly polite or improper-per-the-situation language, for example, when leaving just to go to the convient store, saying something like sore dewa, saraba da, "Well then, It's farewell..."... you rarely ever use sayonara unless you don't expect to see someone for a very long time, and the more literary use of saraba, which comes for sa araba, makes your speach sound more dramatic, which is humorous to many Japanese, and Japanese people will use the same exagerated speech in humor... Much the same if someone stubs their toe, and you shout out in desperation "Daijoubu ka!!?[/i] as if they were in great danger... The language itself is a big part of Japanese humor, hence the "maiu"/"umai" joke...

Also, tips on how to talk to the girls here would be nice...

Talking to Japanese girls is much the same as talking to any other girl... You have to be relaxed, confident, not seem overtly needy or smothering, and it's a good idea to approach them as "women"... not just "Japanese women"... they want the same things most people want, a nice, polite, interesting person who does not, for lack of remembering the Japanese word, put on airs...

If you are just looking to score with Japanese girls, then really just showing up at a bar where yankii enjo kosai girls want to pick up foreigners just for the notch in their belt will do... but that's a little bit like brining home the drunk girl, don't you think?

Good luck.

 

[Elizabeth]

The language itself is a big part of Japanese humor, hence the "maiu"/"umai" joke...

Anything that seems to poke at the excessive repetition/rigidity and strictness of social life will probably get a good laugh. When I can't find something I sometimes echo back that burden of a song you hear at all the stops on all the JR trains about making sure to check your baggage and not leaving anything behind. Mimicing the cadence of stationmasters and public announcements in an exaggerated tone is also funny, but it takes a while to get the pace of that talk down.

I also do things to play around with normal terms like Yukio mentioned, like calling men and women in the workplace "boys" and "girls" in the context of how each class of employees needs to refer to the others, by gender and senority, to emphasize their lack of individuality and personal control.

The ambiguity of daijobu can sometimes be funny on the phone since it can mean both "Shall we go/leave?" and "Are you OK?" although a lot of people do take things pretty literally which makes the dramatic flair of tone important to 'getting it.' Sarcasm won't go over well at all, on the other hand, so don't try a negative or condescending tone with a positive expression. You'll get looks of concern without the laughter.


It's so much work to be funny (=be your friend) in Japanese....but well worth it to know you'll be mastering a language and increased sociability with a single stroke. And with a touch of creativity having it turn into a bowl of laughs at the same time !

 

[Glenski]

Forget humor unless it's something blatantly obvious or slapstick.

Remember that there are long pauses in conversations here, pauses that many foreigners find culturally uncomfortable, but that the Japanese do not. Let them ride. Get used to them.

If something interesting comes up in conversation, say so, and explain why, perhaps because it contrasts with what you learned about Japan or what your home culture is like. Explaining either of those may extend the conversation instead of grilling people with question after question.

Then again, teens (especially here) aren't known for enthrallingly intellectual conversations. You often have to treat people as if they were 5-7 years younger on an emotional scale. Again, get used to that. It'll help you deal with life.

 

[Ewok85]

Then again, teens (especially here) aren't known for enthrallingly intellectual conversations. You often have to treat people as if they were 5-7 years younger on an emotional scale. Again, get used to that. It'll help you deal with life.

I'd second that. When I was 18 and studying in a high school here, I felt more comfortable with the first year students (15~16yr olds) as it was more comfortable having inane conversations with them than people who were supposed to be my age.

To be honest I don't remember what I talked about, it was mainly what was on TV, about what we were studying or what we are doing after school with our club. Making fun of the teachers, trying to get gossip out of the kids, etc.

The hardest part is even if you were had textbook perfect Japanese there is still plenty to learn - not just "slang", but new words that are made up by comedians and the sort which get plenty use in normal conversation. Dondake

 

[diceke]

I'd second that. When I was 18 and studying in a high school here, I felt more comfortable with the first year students (15~16yr olds) as it was more comfortable having inane conversations with them than people who were supposed to be my age.

Knowing how Japanese high schools are stratified by academic levels, I suppose maturity levels of students may be different in different schools, no? :?

 

[Elizabeth]

Knowing how Japanese high schools are stratified by academic levels, I suppose maturity levels of students may be different in different schools, no? :?

And definately different depending on the place. Out in prefectural areas, like
群馬, even by Japanese standards you're going to be dealing with kids who have seen much less of the outside. Some so childlike and innocent that will barely be able to muster the courage to speak with a Caucasian. Or if they don't run to the other side of the street, they will follow you around in shock and awe awaiting your next encounter.

I imagine it could be light years behind what the OP has been accustomed to in the West. On the other hand, if there weren't these differences, what would be the point of an exchange program ? All knowledge could be gained through reading or going online.

 

[Ewok85]

Knowing how Japanese high schools are stratified by academic levels, I suppose maturity levels of students may be different in different schools, no? :?

You could say that, but having spent time at several public schools as well as private schools (including one which is supposed to be the "top" high school in Tokyo) I would say there is little difference.

 

[misa.j]

Elizabeth, I'm from Gunma(群馬）. I just thought it was funny you discribed kids in my hometown as innocent.

 

[Noppin]

Thanks for the advice so far. Yeah, I guess developing a Japanese-acceptable sense of humor is going to take a while. I'll miss the sarcasm, though... What I really pride myself on in English is wit, but I don't have a very good command of japanese yet. Normal conversation is generally okay,with the exception of the occasional word I have to look up in the dictionary. Still, I'd love to be able to speak Japanese fluently enough to be quick. Anybody got a few good vocabulary building exercises? As for the time being, I'll try to stick to nonverbal.

As a matter of fact, I am in Gunma. Yeah, they don't get many foreigners over here. I'm 16 (High scool second year), 187cm (6'2) and a lean 72 kilos (160 pounds). People tend to scurry a lot at first.

In general, people at my school seem kind of immature to me. Maybe it's 'cause I was raised in DC, but I can't be sure. It's various things. Guys and girls tend not to mingle, and even then, when a guy is walking with his guy friends in the hallway and he passes his girlfriend, he might not even say hi. Things like that strike me as kinda funny.

As for the girl situation, if I REALLY just wanted some sex, I could probably get with one of the third year girls that the third year boys took the liberty of pointing out to me. Unfortunately, I don't find slutty too attractive, and I'd rather not have to get treated for clap. Not what I'm interested in.

Also, when I say that Japanese girls are different, I mean that they frequently talk to guys differently than girls. Well, this IS Gunma, so it might be different here than anywhere else.

...Jesus that got long. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[basuotoko]

As for the girl situation, if I REALLY just wanted some sex, I could probably get with one of the third year girls that the third year boys took the liberty of pointing out to me. Unfortunately, I don't find slutty too attractive, and I'd rather not have to get treated for clap. Not what I'm interested in.
Also, when I say that Japanese girls are different, I mean that they frequently talk to guys differently than girls. Well, this IS Gunma, so it might be different here than anywhere else.

What are you talking about? Of course high school girls are going to talk to guys differently, and vice versa. That applies everywhere. To be honest, you sound a little sexually frustrated. Why not go for the "slutty" girl your friend picked out? Just don't forget to use a condom and you shouldn't have to worry about any STDs!

 

[The7thSamurai]

You can read Japanese right? Why don't you go and buy a few comic books aimed at young Japanese males? I'm sure there are humour themed ones out there.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

You can read Japanese right? Why don't you go and buy a few comic books aimed at young Japanese males? I'm sure there are humour themed ones out there.

That's a good idea. A quick fix for jokes is often quoting or mimicking a famous comedian or something funny to the group, like whatever manga they're all reading. Right now my circle of Japanese friends is quoting Hardgay's 'sei sei', which he apparently says whenever he finds something favourable.

 

[Noppin]

What are you talking about? Of course high school girls are going to talk to guys differently, and vice versa. That applies everywhere. To be honest, you sound a little sexually frustrated. Why not go for the "slutty" girl your friend picked out? Just don't forget to use a condom and you shouldn't have to worry about any STDs!

At my high school in DC, guys/girls talked to eachother pretty much the same way/rate. I mean, usually a girl's best friend would be a girl, but conversation was about equal on both sides. Here, they tend to talk to eachother rarely, if at all.

Also, not particularly sexually frustrated. Thanks anyway.

I'm just saying I find it different (and a little strange), and I miss talking to girls. I still do, but it's different, and considerably less often.

 

[KirinMan]

Here, they tend to talk to eachother rarely, if at all.

You are correct, there isnt a whole lot of social interaction between boys and girls in the schools. Sure there are the usual hormones flying around but in the school setting boys pretty much stick to themselves and girls the same.

There has been a push recently for schools to start teaching kids to be more socialable and outgoing. However the way classes are taught kids dont usually have the opportunity to express themselves openly.

I know of quite a few "foreign" teachers here that had their eyes opened up quite wide because kids couldn't or should I say wouldn't answer even the easiest of questions, whether it was in Japanese or English. In some cases the teachers felt personally offended because they thought they were being ignored, which of course they werent, but then they didnt know that at the time.

So dont feel too disappointed if a girl doesnt express herself to you in the same manner you may be accustomed to back home. It probably isnt you, it could just be they really dont know how to reply.

Kids taking more time growing up here.

 

[Glenski]

I'd say forget about trying to learn what is funny or not, and how to change your own conversation style just to adapt your brand of humor to the situation. Be yourself, and just be respectful of others around you. Learn about the culture, but you don't have to be a part of it yourself.

 

[caster51]

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