Pronouns and addressing each other in a family

[Anatoli]

Somehow this seems to be a sensitive topic.

Can someone please enlighten me about usage of pronouns in a family or in young couples.

"Anata" is exclusive for husband to wife, not the other way around, isn't it? What about the reverse? Is "kimi" too intimate?

Also, how do wife and husband address each other? Are there any other common forms apart from anata, kimi, first names, otoosan and okaasan?

 

[nhk9]

Wives do use "anata" at times to address the husbands. The husband can at times use the wife's given name, such as "kyoko", "kimiko", or whatever the name.

Isn't intimacy between a married couple a good thing?

A common mistake for foreigners is to call your own mother "okaasan" when talking about her to a third person. Always use "haha", or "hahaoya". Similarly, use "chichi" for referring your own father.

 

[undrentide]

It's very complicated, it's not about just pronoun.


Generally, when you know the person's name, you should use the name to call them.
Sometimes their title is used instead of their name.
Pronoun should be used only under the very specific condition, otherwise using pronoun for someone whose name you know can sound very rude or offensive. (In other words, "pronoun" in Japanese language is not the same those in English. In English it is something neutral, merely to replace names. In Japanese it has more colour, and tends to have meanings more than just a substitute.

Within a family;
1. you call members older than you with their "title" (or "function"?)
Ojiichan (grandpa), obaachan (grandma), otousan (dad), okaasan (mum), oniichan (elder brother), oneechan (elder sister)
2. you call members younger than you with their name, sometimes with -chan.
3. sometimes you call members with their "title" from the point of view of younger family, if they are living toehter.

grandfather : Takashi (Tetsuya's father)
grandmother : Fumiko (Tetsuya's mother)
father: Tetsuya
mother: Rie
1st son: Shin
1st daughter: Emi
2nd son: Shou
2nd daughter: Aya

*Now they are all living together.

Takashi/Fumiko call Tetsuya: Tetsuya
Takashi/Fumiko call Rie: Rie-san
Tetsuya calls Takashi/Fumiko: otousan, oyaji, touchan, etc./okaasan, ofukuro, kaachan, etc.
Rie calls Takashi/Fumiko: otousan, ojiichan /okaasan, obaachan
Shin/Emi/Shou/Aya call Takashi/Fumiko : ojiichan/obaachan
Shin/Emi/Shou/Aya call Tetsuya/Rie: otousan, papa (babyish), touchan, oyaji (when children are older), etc./okaasan, mama (babyish), kaachan, ofukuro (when childrens are older), etc.

Shin is the eldest of the four. He calls his younger sisters/brother: Emi, Emichan, etc /Shou, Shou kun, Shou chan, etc./Aya, Ayachan, etc.
Emi is the 2nd eldest of the four. She calls Shin: oniichan, Shin chan, Shin kun, etc.
Shou is the 2nd younger of the four. He calls Shin: oniichan, Shin chan, etc. He calls Emi: Oneechan, Emi chan, etc. He calls Aya: Aya chan, Aya
Aya is the youngest of the four. She calls Shin: oniichan, Shin chan, Shin niichan, etc. Emi: oneechan, Emi chan, etc. Shou: oniichan, Shou niichan, Shou chan, etc.

Takashi/Fumiko/Tetsuya/Rie calls their children: name, name-chan/-kun, etc. Also they call Shin oniichan, and Emi oneechan.

Now between the husband/wife.
It really depends on the couple.
In the above instance, Takashi may call Fumiko: Fumi, Fumiko, omae, okaasan (when they didn't have grandchildren), etc..
Fumiko may call Takashi: Takashi san, anata, otoosan, etc.
Same about Tetsuya and Rie.
Here anata are not really pronoun, but rather "darling" in connotation.
Some husband never use the name or title, just call "oi" (like saying "hey!").

English "you" varies depending on the situation.
Using name or title as already explained in the above.
Some husband use omae (which can sound rather arrogant, though it really depends on the couple), some use kimi, to address their wife.
Some wife use anata (sounds polite and affectionate though not all the time), some use anta (which is much more casual. This one may not be so popular as some regard it as vulgarity).
Basically calling your members older than you (exception is wife calling her husband) "anata" is a no-no.
This rule also applies to outside family.
Within family, parents/grandparents use anata, anta, omae to call their children/grandchildren.
Normally to scold them, or to argue.

It's impossible to cover everything here, there can be a lot more, there can be many points missing here.
I hope I could convey some basic idea.

 

[epigene]

Wow, thank you for the detailed coverage, undrentide-san!!

In our home, I call my husband "otoosan" (although he's not my father). He calls me "okaasan." I'm pretty sure there are other couples like that, referring to each other this way ("mama" and "papa" are another alternative) when the kids are small and can't quit! We want to call each other by name and still can't get used to it!

He also calls me "oi" when he has trouble with his PC...

 

[Anatoli]

Wives do use "anata" at times to address the husbands. The husband can at times use the wife's given name, such as "kyoko", "kimiko", or whatever the name.
Isn't intimacy between a married couple a good thing?
A common mistake for foreigners is to call your own mother "okaasan" when talking about her to a third person. Always use "haha", or "hahaoya". Similarly, use "chichi" for referring your own father.

The question how common this type of addressing (by first name) is. I read more about "oi". Intimacy is OK but "kimi" (man to woman), they say, may be considered too intimate by outsiders, not as innocent as "anata" (woman to man).
You are describing common knowledge about okaasan/haha, otoosan/chichi pairs, I didn't mean father and mother but husband and wife. Okaasan/otoosan is also used by parents when referring to each other and even when kids are not around (other posted this too). Thank you, anyway
Underntide and Epigene, thanks for your detailed description.
From my Western point of view, it seems unfair that women are addressed as "oi", not the first name or even pronoun. What do you think?

 

[undrentide]

From my Western point of view, it seems unfair that women are addressed as "oi", not the first name or even pronoun. What do you think?

Not every wife lets her husband call her "oi".
My father has never said "oi" when he addresses my mother.

If you read Japanese, this thread of another forum might be interesting for you.
奥さんを「○×ちゃん」って呼ぶ？ : 男性から発信するトピ : 発言小町 : 大手小町 : YOMIURI ONLINE（読売新聞）
奥さんを「○×ちゃん」って呼ぶ？

 

[Anatoli]

Not every wife lets her husband call her "oi". ;-)
My father has never said "oi" when he addresses my mother.
If you read Japanese, this thread of another forum might be interesting for you.
奥さんを「○×ちゃん」って呼ぶ？ : 男性から発信するトピ : 発言小町 : 大手小町 : YOMIURI ONLINE（読売新聞）
奥さんを「○×ちゃん」って呼ぶ？

僕は「ちゃん」を使わなって、家内を「○ 」ってだけ呼ぶ、ロシア語で話すから。
リンクはありがとうが、よく分からなかった、下手だから。
少し分かった、おもしろかったよ。
That thread has too many pages, with my limited Japanese, it was hard to find, which post is good and answers my question. I see there's a lot of debate about addressing each other in Japan.

Edit:
Undrentide, I was able to read a few more posts. Thanks, very interesting.

 

[epigene]

He also calls me "oi" when he has trouble with his PC...

"Oi" may commonly be used by husbands in older generations to call their wives. My grandfather did that, too, but I did not feel any sense of male dominance when he called my grandmother "oi." In fact, I felt a sense of warmth in it. I think it's because men in these generations feel embarassed to call their wives by their names.

Being younger, however, I would protest being called like that, too.
Still, in our house, my husband uses "oi" -- but strictly in certain occasions when he's angry with himself and wants my help...

 

[Nagato]

Is "oi" a pronoun. AFAIK it can be used also among very close relation people.
Ex: おい、こっち来い。
おい、あれは何だ？
Yeah, it's similar to "hey" in English, no?
Or it's different oi?

Depend on context "oi" and "baka" are very warmth words. "I felt it when I was watching various anime". I dont know about it in the real life. I've never called with "oi" neither "baka". Seem like I envied them

 

[Elizabeth]

Is "oi" a pronoun. AFAIK it can be used also among very close relation people.
Ex: おい、こっち来い。
おい、あれは何だ？
Yeah, it's similar to "hey" in English, no?
Or it's different oi?

It is the same "oi." I wouldn't appreciate it exclusively, like over kimi, although it is definately better than omae...