へ vs へと：Same と as in となる？

[Haruto Uzumaki]

I have wanted to know about this と particle for a while now. I asked on hinative, and it took me a while, but I finally got somewhat of an answer. However, it's still not as much of a deep dive as I was hoping for, regarding this particle.
Particularly (pun intended), I want to know about what exactly this と can and can't do, and if it is the same as the と in 「となる」.
Here is an example of へと in use:

焼けた線路を歩いてゆく
孤独よりも悲しい迷子
迷路がこの足を引きずる
エデンの奥へと
凍えた痛みを温めて
似せた重音に
くちづけて
まただめになってひとり
エデンの奥へと

The person from hinative suggested this after asking him many questions:

The particle と works here to emphasize a motion in progress being continued eternally.

I agree, and this makes sense to me. However, I'm still unsure of what else this と particle is capable of, and what it can't do. Plus, according to other sources, と in 「となる」 would imply a feeling of completion of the act of becoming, as if whatever "becomes" is becoming its final form. This makes me wonder just how many separate と particles there could possibly be... But, I also have a hunch that maybe this is the same と particle. Maybe へと is suggesting that the child is going to remain in a permanent state of being lost as he enters the depths of Eden? I would appreciate if it could be cleared up along with any other possible uses of と, and also the difference in feeling that it gives as well, because that's most important to me right now. Thanks!

 

[Toritoribe]

The person from hinative suggested this

That nuance comes from the context, not from と. In fact, just エデンの奥へ without と also has the nuance "a motion in progress being continued eternally". Furthermore, へと doesn't always have such nuance. For example エデンの奥へと着いた shows that the motion already completed.

if it is the same as the と in 「となる」.

Those と are different from each other. Refer to the dictionary page linked below. While と in へと is the definition #5, と in となる is #4.

と の解説
［格助］名詞、名詞的な語、副詞などに付く。

４ 動作・状態などの結果を表す。「有罪と決定した」「復讐 (ふくしゅう) の鬼と化した」

５ （副詞に付いて新たな副詞をつくり）ある状態を説明する意を表す。「そろそろと歩く」「そよそよと風が吹く」

goo

NTTドコモが運営するポータルサイト「goo」。今話題のニュースやドコモのキャンペーン、サービス紹介などお役立ちコンテンツを展開しています。

dictionary.goo.ne.jp

In song lyrics, へと often uses to fit the melody and/or rhythm instead of just へ.

 

[Haruto Uzumaki]

Thank you,

That nuance comes from the context, not from と. In fact, just エデンの奥へ without と also has the nuance "a motion in progress being continued eternally". Furthermore, へと doesn't always have such nuance. For example エデンの奥へと着いた shows that the motion already completed.

Ahh I see...

Those と are different from each other. Refer to the dictionary page linked below. While と in へと is the definition #5, と in となる is #4.

#4 makes sense to me, but I'm just a bit confused with the definition of #5... Or rather, I don't get in particular how using と in that situation would be any different than not using it. 「ある状態を説明する」、 describe an existing state? Don't sentences basically do that already on their own?
「そろそろと歩く」「そよそよと風が吹く」
そろそろに歩く、そよそよに風が吹く
If I replace と with に for example, I can't detect any difference in the meaning of the sentence at all... Or is it just one of those stylistic things where using it will make it sound more like a written document rather than everyday speech? I'm just failing to see what と does differently than how you would normally say such sentences...

In song lyrics, へと often uses to fit the melody and/or rhythm instead of just へ.

That makes sense, so just adding an extra syllable to tailor the flow of the song. Unlikely that there was any artistic meaning behind it, and basically just so the lyrics fit?

 

[Toritoribe]

そろそろに歩く、そよそよに風が吹く
If I replace と with に for example

Those expressions are ungrammatical. そろそろ and そよそよ can't be used with に.

I don't get in particular how using と in that situation would be any different than not using it. 「ある状態を説明する」、 describe an existing state? Don't sentences basically do that already on their own?

Basically correct. The meaning is the same whether と is there or not since these words are an adverb by itself.
e.g.
そろそろ歩く
そよそよ風が吹く

Or is it just one of those stylistic things where using it will make it sound more like a written document rather than everyday speech?

That's one of the reasons. Here's examples in song lyrics.

恋人よ 僕は旅立つ 東へと向かう列車で

This is actually a letter, so 東へと suits it.

北へ帰る人の群れは 誰も無口で
海鳴りだけを聞いている

This is from an 演歌. The "elegant" tone of へと doesn't fit here.

 

[Haruto Uzumaki]

Those expressions are ungrammatical. そろそろ and そよそよ can't be used with に.

Oops!!

Basically correct. The meaning is the same whether と is there or not since these words are an adverb by itself.
e.g.
そろそろ歩く
そよそよ風が吹く

I never checked whether they were adverbs or not so I guess I just assumed that に would have to be added, actually the existence of adverbs in Japanese is just a bit strange to me But now I get it, I only need に in this way if I'm going to convert a noun into an adverb I suppose. And I guess the reason something like 「優しく」 doesn't take に is because it's in an adverbial form. お陰様で頭がよくなりました

That's one of the reasons. Here's examples in song lyrics.

恋人よ 僕は旅立つ 東へと向かう列車で

This is actually a letter, so 東へと suits it.

Ahh okay, makes sense then, also I was going to ask about this usage of よ soon too, so since it's right here I just wanna quickly ask a couple things: does it work to "notify" the reader immediately, and does it also have that "letter" feeling, as if it was a message being sent directly to whatever it's attached to? Does it have the ability to personify non-human nouns? For example when I tried to translate something like "Japan, return my love" I got the よ particle added to 日本 which made me wonder if it sort of personifies Japan by adding it, and of course it "directs" the message at it as well.

北へ帰る人の群れは 誰も無口で
海鳴りだけを聞いている

This is from an 演歌. The "elegant" tone of へと doesn't fit here.

Ah okay, I think that makes enough sense to me then. I'll safely assume that I don't really need to use it in most of my own creative works, but I just need to know enough to understand the reasoning behind each use case, and I think I can understand now thank you!

 

[Toritoribe]

I only need に in this way if I'm going to convert a noun into an adverb I suppose.

Very close, but に is attached to the stem of na-adjective for an adverb/adverbial phrase, and usually not a noun directly.
e.g.
静かに歩く
きれいに食べる

Nouns usually can't be used as an adverb.
e.g.
to behave like a student: 学生のように振舞う (not 学生に振舞う)

And I guess the reason something like 「優しく」 doesn't take に is because it's in an adverbial form.

Yes, it's an adverbial form of the i-adjective 優しい. (Incidentally, 静かに or きれいに is also considered as the adverbial form of the na-adjectives.)

does it work to "notify" the reader immediately, and does it also have that "letter" feeling, as if it was a message being sent directly to whatever it's attached to?

Not always so. It totally depends on the context.

Does it have the ability to personify non-human nouns? For example when I tried to translate something like "Japan, return my love" I got the よ particle added to 日本 which made me wonder if it sort of personifies Japan by adding it, and of course it "directs" the message at it as well.

Yes, it's indeed personification.
e.g.
海よ おまえが泣いてる夜は
遠い故郷の歌を歌おう
海よ おまえが呼んでる夜は
遠い舟乗りの歌を歌おう

 

[Haruto Uzumaki]

Very close, but に is attached to the stem of na-adjective for an adverb/adverbial phrase, and usually not a noun directly.
e.g.
静かに歩く
きれいに食べる

Nouns usually can't be used as an adverb.
e.g.
to behave like a student: 学生のように振舞う (not 学生に振舞う)

Ah, I guess it's just a matter of what we call them then. From my perspective, I consider them all nouns, and rather than the perspective of there being な adjectives, I consider them one of two noun types, the one that can't possess objects (or in other words, can't have の attached to it). In many cases, nouns that can possess objects still have the ability to act "adjectivally", despite the common view that they are just nouns, so I feel that な adjectives should be considered just non-possessive nouns with an adjectival function.

Not always so. It totally depends on the context.

Dang, guess I'll just have to continue listening to music to know when the context calls for its usage

Yes, it's indeed personification.
e.g.
海よ おまえが泣いてる夜は
遠い故郷の歌を歌おう
海よ おまえが呼んでる夜は
遠い舟乗りの歌を歌おう

Ahh okay, good to know my hunch was right this time I love to learn about Japanese figurative speech and I like those song lyrics, I feel in japanese it's way better for making those genius moves like 「歌を歌おう」 or other ones I've heard like 「気づけなかった傷」、so good

 

[Toritoribe]

Ah, I guess it's just a matter of what we call them then. From my perspective, I consider them all nouns, and rather than the perspective of there being な adjectives, I consider them one of two noun types, the one that can't possess objects (or in other words, can't have の attached to it). In many cases, nouns that can possess objects still have the ability to act "adjectivally", despite the common view that they are just nouns, so I feel that な adjectives should be considered just non-possessive nouns with an adjectival function.

The functions of nouns and the stem of na-adjectives are different from each other. The stem of na-adjectives can't perform as a noun except some exceptions. Also, の can be attached to a kind of the stem of adjectives, thus, の can't be the indicator to check if it's a noun or not. Please refer to the following post.

"no" adjectives

So my girlfriend (not me, I promise) likes J-pop - I heard her listening to Koda Kumi's 'Ecstasy' the other day - and the grammar of the first phrase confused me (like most music). The first phrase is 'かけがえのない今をもっと深く' which some websites translate as 'The present can’t be replaced'. Kotoba...

jref.com