Would anyone proof read my sentences?

dee dee · 7 Feb 2009

Hi,

I'm attempting to learn Japanese with Rosetta Stone v.2. Sadly since there are no translations in it, I'm not sure of all the meanings. Also, I'd like to practice what I am learning with others; but the fact is I don't know anyone locally who speaks Japanese.

So I'm hoping that this forum is friendly enough to read and correct some of the sentences I write on a weekly basis.

(I'm still learning hiragana + I've only been learning for about 2 weeks so please bear with me)

うまにのうているおとこのことおんなのひと.
Horse is ridden by boy and woman.

そうにのうているおとこの人ひこ
Elephant is ridden by man

ボ-ルのうえにいるくるま
Ball is below the car

くるまのなかにいるおんなのひとといぬ
Car, inside(?) are the woman and dog

ひこうきのなかにいるおとこのひととねこ
Plane, inside(?) are the man and cat

Like I've said, I'm only using Rosetta Stone, which is a complete immersion program. So most of the time I'm guessing what the true meanings are. It's a fun program, but I'm left wondering how practical it really is.

Please, if you can help, tell me the reasoning behind it.

Thanks in advance,

Dee Dee

maushan3 · 7 Feb 2009

I'll try to help you. So are you translating by yourself from English to Japanese? What needs to be done here is change the verbs to passive forms.

I'm guessing that you want to translate this to Japanese from English. These sentences could be fine but theyﾂ are missing something at the end. Again, I'm translating from English to the right form in Japanese.

dee dee said:
うまにのうているおとこのことおんなのひと.
Horse is ridden by boy and woman.

Correct should be 馬は男と女の人に乗られています。

そうにのうているおとこの人ひこ
Elephant is ridden by man

像（ぞう）は男（おとこ）のひとに乗（の）られています。

ボ-ルのうえにいるくるま
Ball is below the car

ボールの上（うえ）に車（くるま）がある。

くるまのなかにいるおんなのひとといぬ
Car, inside(?) are the woman and dog

Right should be: 女（おんあ）の人（ひと）と犬（いぬ）は車（くるま）の中（なか）にいます。

However, if you are translating from Japanese to English then something's missing at the end of every sentence. Ex. 像に乗っている男の人 and then what? This in English means "the man who is riding the horse" but, then what happens? You know what I mean, there should be something extra at the end of your sentences in your book.

Mauricio

nice gaijin · 7 Feb 2009

Your english sentences are kind of strange... are you coming up with the Japanese and trying to translate them into English? I'm not quite sure what's going on here. Also, your Japanese are not complete sentences, but are nouns with descriptive clauses...

うまにのうているおとこのことおんなのひと.
Horse is ridden by boy and woman.
It would be 乗っている/のっている, not のうている. This is like saying "the boy and woman riding a horse," it's not a complete sentence.

そうにのうているおとこの人ひこ
Elephant is ridden by man
象/ぞう, not そう. the ひこ at the end makes no sense.

ボ-ルのうえにいるくるま
Ball is below the car
Again, more like "the car on top of the ball," and again, not a complete sentence. Also, you don't use いる for inanimate objects, it would be ある.

くるまのなかにいるおんなのひとといぬ
Car, inside(?) are the woman and dog
Not a complete sentence, but the meaning is understandable

ひこうきのなかにいるおとこのひととねこ
Plane, inside(?) are the man and cat
Same as above

Hmm, Rosetta stone is kind of a mess when it comes to grammer. Good attempts though, do keep them up, and check other threads on this forum for some good pointers.

I would be a little wary about introducing complicated verb conjugations before she's ready for it...

epigene · 7 Feb 2009

nice gaijin said:
うまにのうているおとこのことおんなのひと.
Horse is ridden by boy and woman.
It would be 乗っている/のっている, not のうている. This is like saying "the boy and woman riding a horse," it's not a complete sentence.

I agree with nice gaijin. Reading the original post, I think dee dee has a typing or reading mistake made between つ and う .
のうているーー＞のっている
The same mistake is made with other parts of the post.

Also, the Japanese texts are not sentences but just phrases, as nice gaijin pointed out:

うまにのうているおとこのことおんなのひと
Probably ー＞うまにのっているおとこのことおんなのひと
Boy and woman who are riding a horse or horses. (Number of horses unknown from the text)

そうにのうているおとこの人ひこ
Maybe ー＞ぞうにのっているおとこのひと
Man (adult) who is riding an elephant.

ボ-ルのうえにいるくるま
This translates into "a car on top of a ball."
Also, いる is used for people and animate creatures. The choice here should be ある
For a ball to be under a car: くるまのしたにあるぼーる

くるまのなかにいるおんなのひとといぬ
Phrase again, meaning: Woman and dog who/that are in a/the car

ひこうきのなかにいるおとこのひととねこ
Phrase: Man and cat who/that are in an airplane

HTH!

Toritoribe · 7 Feb 2009

dee dee said:
ボ-ルのうえにいるくるま
Ball is below the car

Just wild guess, isn't that ボールのうえにいるくま, "a bear on a ball?"

dee dee · 7 Feb 2009

Opps! I made a few typos. ^_^;

Well, thanks for so many responses!

Let me try to explain again, so you can understand how I'm learning a little Japanese. The Rosetta Stone program presents me with 4 pictures, and it will say (orally and written) a phrase in Japanese. It does not give me any English. I then have to pick the correct picture to match the phrase. So I have an idea of what is going on, but I'm left wondering the exact meaning.

What I've tried to do is, from the vague idea that I have of the meaning of the Rosetta Stone phrases that I've learned; I've tried to create my own phrases. So you're right, I should have titled this thread "proof read my phrases" not sentences.

So what's really wrong are my English translations. Sorry Mauricio you went way over my head. =( I'm not that advanced.

So please let me try again:

ー＞うまにのっているおとこのことおんなのひと.
the boy and the woman are riding the horse
(so does ー＞ mean one? Would this sentence make sense without ー＞ because I didn't add "tachi" which would make it plural?)

ー＞ぞうにのっているおとこのひと
the man is riding the elephant

ボ-ルのうえにあるくるま
the car on top of the ball
(I've tried to replace the iru with aru)

くるまのなかにいるおんなのひとといぬ
the woman and the dog are in the car

ひこうきのなかにいるおとこのひととねこ
the man and the cat who are in the plane

Is that better? From what I understand, I'm actually typing descriptive clauses. Also the subject / object seem to be reversed when compared to English. That's confusing, I wasn't aware of that.

Again, thank you! My only resources for now are the RS program and the internet, so please bear with me.

I'll try to post new phrases every weekend. I will be very grateful if you continue to help. ^_^

Ashikaga · 7 Feb 2009

dee dee said:
So what's really wrong are my English translations. Sorry Mauricio you went way over my head. =( I'm not that advanced.

OK, what you have here below, in English, is a sentence.

the boy and the woman are riding the horse.

...and as nice gaijin and epigene have pointed out,

うまにのっているおとこのことおんなのひと

is NOT a sentence. So, the correct translation would be, "A boy and a woman (who are) riding (a) horse/s" . Do you see the difference? ﾂ

ー＞うまにのっているおとこのことおんなのひと.
the boy and the woman are riding the horse
(so does ー＞ mean one? Would this sentence make sense without ー＞ because I didn't add "tachi" which would make it plural?)

The " ー＞" here is not part of the Japanese text. It is an arrow ( → ).

Good luck!

Putrefaction · 7 Feb 2009

Correct should be 馬は男と女の人に乗られています

Just my two cents, but doesn't that say, horse (wa) man and woman's child (girl)...

It should be, 馬は女と男の人 (woman and man's child(boy)).

Hmm, Rosetta stone is kind of a mess when it comes to grammer.

It isn't a mess per se, I went back and did level 1 now that I know enough Kanji to pass the JLPT4 and it's relatively easy. But for a language completely different from English it's not a great idea to go into RS, I did RS for German until Level 1.8 or so and it was decent. It's meant for the person who needs to learn superficially and quickly.

This may be the one the topic creator was talking about?

Anyways dee dee I suggest you learn from Genki and then go into Rosetta Stone -- Lesson 1 Unit 1 6th set of slides has advanced verb conjugation! This is where I got the picture on! It's not even in the first 5 LESSONS of Genki. Check out my topic in the Kanji Learning for shots of Genki and stuff.

maushan3 · 8 Feb 2009

Putrefaction said:
Just my two cents, but doesn't that say, horse (wa) man and woman's child (girl)...

It should be, 馬は女と男の人 (woman and man's child(boy)).

No, 女 should always be accompanied by either の人(for a woman) or の子(for a girl) because if I'm not mistaken, Japanese see as detrimental for women to only say 女。

Let me get this straight again. When it's said "onna no hito" or "onna no ko" it doesn't mean 'a woman's child' at all. They just add "no hito" and "no ko" so that it doesn't sound too rude for women.

Mauricio

undrentide · 8 Feb 2009

Putrefaction said:
Just my two cents, but doesn't that say, horse (wa) man and woman's child (girl)...

It should be, 馬は女と男の人 (woman and man's child(boy)).

男の人 does not mean boy... 男の人 simply means a man.
Boy is 男の子.

And as maushan3 pointed out, 女の人、男の人 sounds more polite.

Putrefaction · 8 Feb 2009

Oops oops! Yeah I meant to put that, just forgot to haha.

maushan3 · 8 Feb 2009

Putrefaction said:
Oops oops! Yeah I meant to put that, just forgot to haha.

What exactly did you forget to put?

Mauricio

Damicci · 9 Feb 2009

Putrefaction said:
Just my two cents, but doesn't that say, horse (wa) man and woman's child (girl)...

It should be, 馬は女と男の人 (woman and man's child(boy)).

Probably in regards to this.

If the 女 was written by itself but here it is linked bｙと to 男 so wouldn't の人 apply to both nouns in this case?

Elizabeth · 9 Feb 2009

Damicci said:
Probably in regards to this.

If the 女 was written by itself but here it is linked bｙと to 男 so wouldn't の人 apply to both nouns in this case?

女 or 男 alone....hmmm....it's almost like talking about a criminal or bad girl or something. Maybe these people are NOT very solid, serious or upstanding equestrians after all.

FrustratedDave · 9 Feb 2009

Elizabeth said:
女 or 男 alone....hmmm....it's almost like talking about a criminal or bad girl or something. Maybe these people are NOT very solid, serious or upstanding equestrians after all.

Hey... Elizabeth is back!

Sorry for the derail.

Putrefaction · 9 Feb 2009

Damicci said:
Probably in regards to this.

If the 女 was written by itself but here it is linked bｙと to 男 so wouldn't の人 apply to both nouns in this case?

Yep to your first part, I forgot to change it to the shi/ko.

I think it does apply, but @undrentide said it was politeness. As for your second point absolutely now that I think about it, it is saying, "woman and man's child", meaning a boy and a girl. To make it "woman person and man's child" makes it 100% clearer.

I really gotta learn to read before I post! Bad habits.

Elizabeth · 9 Feb 2009

Putrefaction said:
Yep to your first part, I forgot to change it to the shi/ko.
I think it does apply, but undrentide said it was politeness. As for your second point absolutely now that I think about it, it is saying, "woman and man's child", meaning a boy and a girl. To make it "woman person and man's child" makes it 100% clearer.
I really gotta learn to read before I post! Bad habits.

But like we said earlier, this is a set phrase meaning boy. And 男の子 (boy) doesn't indicate a possessive relationship from man to son. It simply の relates the state of one thing (子) as described by another (男). Boy that is a male. The end.

Another example would be 東京の２９歳の会社員の女 ... The 29 year old female office worker who lives in Tokyo...a lady that wasn't born by and is not owned by her age, location, employment, etc. They're simply a part of her story. I'm sure there's a formal term to simplify this, but hopefully the point gets across anyway...

dee dee · 10 Feb 2009

おげんきですか
Ogenki desu-ka. (I don't know how to make it plural to address a whole group)

the correct translation would be, "A boy and a woman (who are) riding (a) horse/s" .

soo.. I'm actually writing relative clauses? Is that why the subject/objects seem reversed?

The " ー＞" here is not part of the Japanese text. It is an arrow ( → ).

LOL!!!

Anyways dee dee I suggest you learn from Genki and then go into Rosetta Stone --Check out my topic in the Kanji Learning for shots of Genki and stuff.

Hmm… Genki? Sorry, I couldn't find your topic. =(
__________________________________________

Ok, I have a few more sentences, if you don't mind correcting them. Please remember that I'm actually guessing at the English meaning.

うまはとびこえています。
"The horse jumps (over)."
This is a complete sentence, right? Is that why the subject/object are the same as in the English sentence?

おんなのこはとびおりています。
"The girl jumps (over)."
Why does this sentence have "ori" while the previous sentence uses "koe"?

おとこのこたちははしっています。
"The boys run."
Or is it "the boys are running."?

とりはとんでいます。
"The bird is in the air."(?)

ねこはあるいています。
"The cat is walking."

どもありがとございます。
Domo arigato gozaimasu for your help.

maushan3 · 10 Feb 2009

dee dee said:
おげんきですか
Ogenki desu-ka. (I don't know how to make it plural to address a whole group)

There's no way. You have to say exactly who you are referring to.
Therefore to address a whole group, the best way is... 皆（みんな）さん、お元気ですか？

おとこのこたちははしっています。
"The boys run."
Or is it "the boys are running."?

It is "the boys are running" since verbs in regular form (ending in 'u' at the end) changed to っている at the end while dropping the final う are active verbs that are occurring right now at the moment.
ex: 男の子達は走っています。= The boys are running.
whilst, 男の子達は走る。= The boys run.

See the difference?

とりはとんでいます。
"The bird is in the air."(?)

Same thing as above. The correct translation is: "The bird is flying"
飛んでいる is the active form (or whatever it is called) of the regular form verb 飛ぶ（とぶ） which means "to fly".

ねこはあるいています。
"The cat is walking."

Now you get it.

Sorry I couldn't help you with the first two. I have to look it up since I don't understand them.

Mauricio

Toritoribe · 10 Feb 2009

dee dee said:
Hmm… Genki? Sorry, I couldn't find your topic.

Putrefaction said:
I suggest you learn from Genki and then go into Rosetta Stone

I agree. The compound verb とびこえています/とびおりています seems a bit grammatically complicated for pure beginners.

Putrefaction · 11 Feb 2009

Elizabeth said:
But like we said earlier, this is a set phrase meaning boy. And 男の子 (boy) doesn't indicate a possessive relationship from man to son. It simply の relates the state of one thing (子) as described by another (男). Boy that is a male. The end.
Another example would be 東京の２９歳の会社員の女 ... The 29 year old female office worker who lives in Tokyo...a lady that wasn't born by and is not owned by her age, location, employment, etc. They're simply a part of her story. I'm sure there's a formal term to simplify this, but hopefully the point gets across anyway...

The way that I relate the two is to say woman's child = girl, not as a possessive to say that it is HER child, just a girl in general. Child that is Female.
And yeah lesson 1 part 6 has more of the -te verb, its so complicated!

ShadowSpirit · 11 Feb 2009

I can sympathize with dee dee's frustration. Rosetta Stone ended up being my first home-schooled program of choice also. It resulted in the same confusion and complications that she is encountering.

Rosetta Stone is one of those things that isn't going to be too useful to you now. Yet after you've grasped the basics (as repeatedly recommended to be learned from the Genki: Learning Japanese series,) you'll find that Rosetta Stone is very effective for developing your listening skills. I would close my eyes and let Rosetta Stone spout off a sentence, attempt to translate it mentally, then apply it to whatever picture they have listed when I look at the screen. I remember being excited when I heard a sentence that I thought I had incorrectly translated as. "The hat is on the donkey's foot." I looked at the screen and sure enough, there is a picture of a donkey lying on its back with a hat resting on one of its hooves.

dee dee. It would seem that my intelligent and better educated peers of JREF have already beaten me to the punch in answering most of your questions. Though you did bring up one thing I wanted to clarify for you since I can relate to the misinterpretation you're getting from Rosetta Stone.

You've seen sentences like: tori wa tonde imasu, hikouki wa tonde imasu. Then you'll get a sentence like: otokonoko wa tonde imasu.

This is what probably brought you to mistakenly believe that tonde imasu (taken from the root verb 'tobu') means "is in the air." When actually it means both: to jump or to fly. As you progress in the program, you'll find a lot of verbs that have multiple meanings. Don't let this confuse you when you encounter it. Example: iru means to exist, but it also means to need. That was another one that confused me when I was using Rosetta Stone.

Forgive my use of roumaji. I don't have access to kanji/kana characters on my work computer.

Would anyone proof read my sentences?

ﾆ智ﾆ段ﾆ樽ﾆ誰

Back home

Resident Realist

相変わらず不束者です

松葉解禁

ﾆ智ﾆ段ﾆ樽ﾆ誰

もちもちした食感

不幸中の幸い. . . がない.

Back home

Japa'n vagyok

不幸中の幸い. . . がない.

Back home

先輩

先輩

先輩

不幸中の幸い. . . がない.

先輩

ﾆ智ﾆ段ﾆ樽ﾆ誰

Back home

松葉解禁

不幸中の幸い. . . がない.

normal is so passe

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