Working for Eikaiwa in the sticks

I've asked these same questions to a few people, and have had mixed responses, so thought I'd give it a go here. Thanks in advance....

After many years visiting for between 1-12 months, my J Mrs and I have decided to make the move permanently with our toddler in August. Plan is to move to the countryside in Chugoku, Shikoku or Kyushu, probably Kyushu, and buy an old place to reform... we'll be rent and mortgage free and my Mrs has a small income, so I only need to make about 7 or 8 man a month...

So, plan is for me to get a part time job at an eikaiwa...and gradually build up some private teaching.. but my question here is about finding eikaiwa work... I see this as a long term thing and I want to be a good teacher eventually, however, the first thing is to score myself an initial job and go from there, so getting the initial job is what I'm focused on.

Me in a nutshell:
39 yo, spouse visa, native English speaker, Bachelors degree (did exchange at a J uni for 1 year),
experience as a tutor for uni students and as a primary classroom assistant,
worked in the music biz for several years as an engineer and composer, did an intern-ship at a service for disengaged youth. I'm well spoken, flexible, a good talker, and am as comfortable making presentations to large groups as working one-to-one.

SO.....my questions:
1) Should I do the CELTA? - I know it will make me a better teacher but do I need it to get a job in an Eikaiwa out in the sticks? - and is it worth the $3000? - I'm willing to invest but a bit hesitant!!!
2) Should I just do an online TEFL? - will this make any difference to getting work?
3) Should I just go through Jeremy Harmer's How to Teach English, watch some vidoes and wing it?
4) Considering my attributes (particularly my age!!), will I be able to find work without too much trouble?
5) Any other suggestions or comments?

I think the main point is, I'm looking for part time work, with no experience, a long way from the mega cities, and want to know what I can do to increase my chances.

THANKS - just found this forum today and will no doubt become a regular.

Not an authority on this, but:
1. Unnecessary. Take the course for your own enjoyment, if you like. Any other reason is superfluous to teaching eikaiwa in the backwoods.
2. As above.
3. As above.
4. There is always a need for eikawa instructors, but whether or not you can earn the kind of dosh you are hoping to earn really depends on just how "inaka" your inaka is. Out in the sticks of Kyushu and Chugoku you might struggle to earn even the very modest sum you are looking at. You might have more luck opening an English juku, but a proper juku would require you to know the English curriculum taught in the school system, and would require knowledge of the English sections of high school and university entrance exams. Its something to explore, anyway. (I realize this perpetuates the horrible cycle of learning just enough English to pass the tests, but not really acquiring knowledge or skill of how to speak English, but I'm concentrating on the economics of the would-be teacher right now. We can struggle with the larger implications later...)
5. I would suggest getting a place that is not too far from a major city. Anything within 30 minutes of a major city (say, 100k population) opens up work possibilities, and keeps JoeAndCo from going off the deep-end from teaching English to rural folk.

No kids in the equation? If the answer is no, you have one less complication to consider. If the answer is yes, there is a whole different dimension of muzukashii entering into the mix.

Edit: I just saw that you are bringing your toddler with you. This is a complication, but it doesn't change the prospects for you as an Eikaiwa teacher. It does present a whole lot of things to fret over. But I'll pontificate on those later, if the thread turns in that direction.

Do you have any other qualifications, marketable job skills, and Japanese language ability? Or are you locking yourself strictly into the Eikaiwa thing with no possibility of a Plan B?

Mike Cash said:

Do you have any other qualifications, marketable job skills, and Japanese language ability? Or are you locking yourself strictly into the Eikaiwa thing with no possibility of a Plan B?

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Mike, we plan to build up a small business, and I also write music for media sporadically for a company in the UK.
We also plan to be as self-sufficient as we can..
Japanese language ability is beginner>intermediate, and will take a while until I can function properly in society..
I'm hoping the 'eikaiwa thing' will be there in the background while we find our feet, possibly for quite a few years.

Majestic said:

4. There is always a need for eikawa instructors, but whether or not you can earn the kind of dosh you are hoping to earn really depends on just how "inaka" your inaka is. Out in the sticks of Kyushu and Chugoku you might struggle to earn even the very modest sum you are looking at. You might have more luck opening an English juku, but a proper juku would require you to know the English curriculum taught in the school system, and would require knowledge of the English sections of high school and university entrance exams.
5. I would suggest getting a place that is not too far from a major city. Anything within 30 minutes of a major city (say, 100k population) opens up work possibilities, and keeps JoeAndCo from going off the deep-end from teaching English to rural folk.

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All really good points Majestic... those are things I will keep firmly in mind.
Re: kid... yes a whole new dimension of complications

my Mrs has a small income, so I only need to make about 7 or 8 man a month...

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That's today's situation. What happens if your wife (age unknown to us) gets pregnant, or sick, or injured and can't work? You didn't say what she does for a living, so we can't really know whether it's something that will last, and that's important in a country with gender discrimination like Japan. Also, wouldn't the two of you rather make as much money as possible? I say this only because of words like "small income" and "child" just don't jive with a meager income, especially when you plan to spend money reforming a whole house.

we plan to build up a small business, and I also write music for media sporadically for a company in the UK.

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Plan to, eh? What kind of business. What plans have you made so far exactly? How much did you imagine that it would bring in? You don't have to go into detail, but at this stage, you don't seem to be on solid footing for supporting a family here.

CELTA is not required to get an eikaiwa job, certainly not a part-time one (which is what you'd get for 70,000 yen a month). And, despite the enormous competition here now (numbers of people, that is, not necessarily quality of teacher wannabes), you probably won't need it if you plan to live in the sticks where not many other foreigners want to go. Kyushu has large cities, though, so we really don't know where you want to end up. And, you don't seem to have teaching on your mind as a long-term goal, either. Save the money, but don't expect that your experience so far will satisfy all employers, and don't think that you yourself will be satisfied with your teaching ability just yet. Whatever you tutored (math? social studies? science? Spanish?) where you live now is probably nothing at all like teaching conversation lessons to the variety of eikaiwa customers that you would get (children from age 2 on up, housewives who just want to fill their days, senior citizens who only want to socialize and maybe learn a little English for traveling, misguided businessmen who think a once a week class will raise their level to one that helps them at work here or abroad).

2) Should I just do an online TEFL? - will this make any difference to getting work?

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Probably not a bad idea at this point for all the reasons I stated above (and the price). Just how long do you think it'll really, really take to establish this "small business" and start making enough to support the 3 of you? You might be teaching for longer than you think, is what I'm saying.

3) Should I just go through Jeremy Harmer's How to Teach English, watch some vidoes and wing it?

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For goodness' sake, don't even get into the teaching biz if you plan to wing it in any sense of the word. There are enough clowns here now who can't teach their way out of a paper bag. Not only is that bad for the customers/students, but it hurts the employer, his image, you and your image, and the image of the rest of us who take teaching seriously (yes, even in eikaiwa).

4) Considering my attributes (particularly my age!!), will I be able to find work without too much trouble?

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You're not much better off than 90% of the wannabes with work experience so unrelated to teaching as yours. Coming here in August is not the best time to get hired, either. Obon kills a few days for some companies, and August itself is not considered a stellar hiring month. But in the most general of responses, I can tell you that without knowing you from Adam, you might get your foot in the door for an interview at some mom and pop eikaiwa or a rural NOVA/GEOS/ECC. How you impress them further is entirely up to you. Keep in mind that the more commercial enterprises actually have an English exam that you must pass, too. (Your age is not all that critical. I started older than you.)

Glenski, firstly thanks for the comprehensive reply to my questions. you've thrown up a few important issues..

I should point out that we will buy a vehicle, a house for cash, reform it, put in solar, and still have a fair bit of change, ie enough to buffer us for a while and put into a business.
My wife works from home, she has a few graphic design clients in UK in Australia. Not amazing but something.
The very reason we are moving to the countryside in Japan is so we don't have to earn as much money as we can.
The very reason we're leaving Australia is because we're staring down the barrel of a HUGE mortgage, long commutes 5 days a week - and lots of $$'s (success???). But life is too short, and that's not the life we want.

We plan to become as self-sufficient as possible, as quickly as possible, and live a reasonably slow life, living frugally, building a permaculture system up etc. Quite honestly, I do see part-time eikaiwa as a long term gig, and if I'm going to do something, I would rather do it well, and I believe I can. As far as I can see, in terms of the time/money ratio allowing me to not get consumed by a job, part time eikaiwa (2-3 short days?) is a worker, as is building up a collection of private students.

The "small business" we want to start up is a roadside cafe on a tourist route. I wouldn't expect it to make anything at first, but I believe my wife has the business nouse to build it up into a 'small' earner over a couple of years. No doubt I'll get ridiculed for this idea. Like I said, we don't want to make loads of money..

In London I was an IT & study skills tutor for disadvantaged university students from non-English speaking backgrounds. I understand it's nothing like Eikaiwa but it is loosely related. I also worked as a classroom assistant in a class full of 8-year-olds. Also loosely related.. From your and others' advice, it seems like I should forget the CELTA, find a good online TEFL certificate and diligently complete it, read Harmer's book, watch loads of DVD's, generally learn as much as I can, focus on my transferable skills, get myself into the interview room, get an entry level eikaiwa job, and start working. Then the real learning will begin...

We're coming in August as we want to have an extended holiday, buy a campingcar and cruise around looking for houses, land and possible places to set up a business. I would hope to find a gig that starts at the beginning of 2016, mainly so we don't eat any further into our wonga.

Seriously, I'm in this for the long haul and your advice is all greatly appreciated. I realise you've been in Japan a long time
and I'm open to any advice or ideas you (or anyone for that matter) feel inclined to throw my way. Cheers.

With young people abandoning the countryside and a general prospect of depopulation for much of the country, many rural towns and villages offer various incentives to attract new residents. There are things like tax breaks, free land, building cost grants, etc. Many also maintain registries of dirt cheap empty houses for sale or rent which are not listed through regular real estate agents. This stuff is searchable online but is only in Japanese. Have your wife do some research, list up promising places, do more research on the surroundings of each, narrow it down to a few candidates, and plan a route. Then you can make much more productive use of your trip than you would by farting about in an RV and trusting to serendipity. That's a wonderful thing to do on a vacation, but you'll be on a mission with a specific goal.

Mike Cash said:

With young people abandoning the countryside and a general prospect of depopulation for much of the country, many rural towns and villages offer various incentives to attract new residents. There are things like tax breaks, free land, building cost grants, etc. Many also maintain registries of dirt cheap empty houses for sale or rent which are not listed through regular real estate agents. This stuff is searchable online but is only in Japanese. Have your wife do some research, list up promising places, do more research on the surroundings of each, narrow it down to a few candidates, and plan a route. Then you can make much more productive use of your trip than you would by farting about in an RV and trusting to serendipity. That's a wonderful thing to do on a vacation, but you'll be on a mission with a specific goal.

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Solid advice Mr Cash... taken on board.
I would like to find the right balance of farting about / being on a mission....
Seriously though, will get my mrs to look into what you've mentioned

The very reason we're leaving Australia is because we're staring down the barrel of a HUGE mortgage, long commutes 5 days a week - and lots of $$'s (success???).

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So, you already owe a massive amount of money, yet you say you have tons to spend on buying a car (on top of a camping car?) and house outright, as well as the (potentially pricey) land, not to mention land and building for a restaurant? Please help me understand this.

If you think you're going to save money in the country, that might be true to some point. However, consider these things, too.

• What is the tax situation in Oz? That is, do you have to pay there as well as here?
• Gasoline prices are damn high here, and even with a fuel efficient car, you will have to use it a lot in a rural boondocks location, perhaps just to get into a town to buy food (and more gas).
• Buying a car outright saves, yes, but there is also the mandatory safety inspection (shaken). Price depends on the make and age of the car. Use the car a lot and you have tires to buy. Again, pretty expensive here.
  
• Have you any idea what it will take to set up a roadside cafe? Not just costs, but licenses from the health department, taxes, land prices, etc.? Moreover, you know the old saying about the success of any business being location, location, and location. How do you figure a boondocks cafe on a lonely country road will be a success? Most restaurants fade away fairly quickly anyway, and even if you manage to survive for 5-10 years, that will make you about 50. What then?

The "small business" we want to start up is a roadside cafe on a tourist route.

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What exactly is that route? You realize that people around Japan use public transportation a lot, don't you? Those who drive often take the highways (tollways), not the secondary roads so much. Have you already picked out a suitable back-country road that really has traffic?

I should point out that we will buy a vehicle, a house for cash, reform it, put in solar, and still have a fair bit of change, ie enough to buffer us for a while and put into a business.

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How long have you calculated is "a while"? Yes, I want to see the actual math.

Quite honestly, I do see part-time eikaiwa as a long term gig, and if I'm going to do something, I would rather do it well, and I believe I can.

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Ok, then get decent training in how to teach as well as in how to establish a business in teaching. I know several people in the rural (150,000 people) city where I live (and some actually live outside the city by 15-20 min, so they have no neighbors within several km), and they have been here 15-30 years. Most teach as ALTs/AETs in public schools, and some supplement income with lessons at home. It's damn tough, even with Japanese spouses.

I've done private lessons in a much bigger city, and the two main problems were finding a central location for people to meet (or finding customers willing to pay for my travel expenses to their homes), and the overall finicky customers who want the absolute dirt cheapest fees yet who are willing to quit you at the drop of a hat, leaving you stranded without a month's planned income from them. Please talk to others with experience! I suggest going to the ESL Cafe web site to ask. If you're going to be in a smaller town or even far from any town at all, you're going to have to consider how you and customers will meet up every week.

My wife works from home, she has a few graphic design clients in UK in Australia. Not amazing but something.

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Would you mind if I ask just how much per month she takes in, and how consistent is that over the past 1-2 years? This is likely going to be what tides you over until your first paycheck in May/June (see below) if you get hired as a teacher.

I would hope to find a gig that starts at the beginning of 2016

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It seems you know nothing about the hiring here. Most jobs begin in April. Practically nothing is available in December/January. ALT announcements may be made at that time, but the interviews take place in Feb/March for the April starts. Living in the boonies will not present you with many opportunities at all. Yes, I am being negative about this, but these points are also reality. A 40-year-old Aussie with no language teaching experience (and even if you get that online cert, it will be untried) is pretty poor pickings for schools or eikaiwas, and your only real trump card is a spousal visa.

We know your age, but how about your wife? Is there a chance of more kids in the future? What are you going to do about schooling with your current child? An international school, if even available in the countryside, is very pricey, as are private schools. Regardless, having a child (as I do) is not a cheap thing overall.

So, you already owe a massive amount of money, yet you say you have tons to spend on buying a car (on top of a camping car?) and house outright, as well as the (potentially pricey) land, not to mention land and building for a restaurant? Please help me understand this.

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We won't owe a massive amount of money, we are in the process of selling our house, releasing a fair bit of equity and getting rid of the mortgage...ie. we will arrive in Japan with no debt and a fair bit of cash.
We will only pay tax in Japan.


If you think you're going to save money in the country, that might be true to some point. However, consider these things, too.

• What is the tax situation in Oz? That is, do you have to pay there as well as here?
• Gasoline prices are damn high here, and even with a fuel efficient car, you will have to use it a lot in a rural boondocks location, perhaps just to get into a town to buy food (and more gas).
• Buying a car outright saves, yes, but there is also the mandatory safety inspection (shaken). Price depends on the make and age of the car. Use the car a lot and you have tires to buy. Again, pretty expensive here.
  
• Have you any idea what it will take to set up a roadside cafe? Not just costs, but licenses from the health department, taxes, land prices, etc.? Moreover, you know the old saying about the success of any business being location, location, and location. How do you figure a boondocks cafe on a lonely country road will be a success? Most restaurants fade away fairly quickly anyway, and even if you manage to survive for 5-10 years, that will make you about 50. What then?

What exactly is that route? You realize that people around Japan use public transportation a lot, don't you? Those who drive often take the highways (tollways), not the secondary roads so much. Have you already picked out a suitable back-country road that really has traffic?

How long have you calculated is "a while"? Yes, I want to see the actual math.

Ok, then get decent training in how to teach as well as in how to establish a business in teaching. I know several people in the rural (150,000 people) city where I live (and some actually live outside the city by 15-20 min, so they have no neighbors within several km), and they have been here 15-30 years. Most teach as ALTs/AETs in public schools, and some supplement income with lessons at home. It's damn tough, even with Japanese spouses.

I've done private lessons in a much bigger city, and the two main problems were finding a central location for people to meet (or finding customers willing to pay for my travel expenses to their homes), and the overall finicky customers who want the absolute dirt cheapest fees yet who are willing to quit you at the drop of a hat, leaving you stranded without a month's planned income from them. Please talk to others with experience! I suggest going to the ESL Cafe web site to ask. If you're going to be in a smaller town or even far from any town at all, you're going to have to consider how you and customers will meet up every week.

Would you mind if I ask just how much per month she takes in, and how consistent is that over the past 1-2 years? This is likely going to be what tides you over until your first paycheck in May/June (see below) if you get hired as a teacher.

It seems you know nothing about the hiring here. Most jobs begin in April. Practically nothing is available in December/January. ALT announcements may be made at that time, but the interviews take place in Feb/March for the April starts. Living in the boonies will not present you with many opportunities at all. Yes, I am being negative about this, but these points are also reality. A 40-year-old Aussie with no language teaching experience (and even if you get that online cert, it will be untried) is pretty poor pickings for schools or eikaiwas, and your only real trump card is a spousal visa.

We know your age, but how about your wife? Is there a chance of more kids in the future? What are you going to do about schooling with your current child? An international school, if even available in the countryside, is very pricey, as are private schools. Regardless, having a child (as I do) is not a cheap thing overall.[/QUOTE]

Jeez Glenski, I don't quite know what to say, I think I'm going to leave this thread alone. Your toxic "can't do" attitude is overwhelming. That's your reality, not mine. You obviously have a certain outlook on life and have your own, perhaps negative, individual experience of life in Japan, and are clearly projecting that. To be honest it doesn't seem like you (or your struggling English teaching friends) are really the people to ask for advice on the wider issue of building a happy and successful life, or thinking outside the box....whether in Japan or elsewhere.. I simply came here to talk about getting eikaiwa work in the countryside, an area which I do value your opinion on, and gave some background info on myself in order to provide context.. Anyway, thanks for your "on topic" input, but I think I'd like to leave it at that.

Can anyone offer Joe a search on properties in Kyushu (or areas within Kyushu) that are up for auction by local municipalities?

These used to appear in the local paper, but it has been a while since I've seen them there. Such listings are undoubtedly available locally, if you know where to ask, but are they also online?

johnnyG said:

Can anyone offer Joe a search on properties in Kyushu (or areas within Kyushu) that are up for auction by local municipalities?

These used to appear in the local paper, but it has been a while since I've seen them there. Such listings are undoubtedly available locally, if you know where to ask, but are they also online?

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Mike,

Wow. I'll remember this if I ever need any info immediately!

:lots of emojis:

johnnyG said:

Mike,

Wow. I'll remember this if I ever need any info immediately!

:lots of emojis:

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Google is our friend.

True..., I was thinking Joe doesn't know about this (doesn't realize this aspect of the system here), and was too lazy to google around myself.

Thanks!

johnnyG said:

True..., I was thinking Joe doesn't know about this (doesn't realize this aspect of the system here), and was too lazy to google around myself.

Thanks!

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Another useful search, this one related to the properties listed by municipalities and not with real estate agents. Japan, especially rural Japan, has a huge glut of existing houses.

Jeez Glenski, I don't quite know what to say, I think I'm going to leave this thread alone. Your toxic "can't do" attitude is overwhelming. That's your reality, not mine.

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When you have spent as many years here as I have, and kept up with the market similarly, please let me know your own "attitude". I worked my way up starting at 40 from eikaiwa to private HS and PT jobs to a tenured university position, all starting from total scratch with the Internet in its infancy to provide me with scraps of information. You are getting the benefits of that and far more in terms of teaching job hunting. Anything else I leave to people like Mike.

Did you expect someone here to tell you that living in a rural area would provide even a modest number of eikaiwa jobs? Heck, even the ALTs are hired from without (JET, dispatch agencies), and the larger eikaiwas that might have a single office there would do the same, usually hiring from abroad. this is not "my reality"; it's reality.

The market in Japan is really poor for teachers. Reality. Fact. It's a buyer's (employer's) market. Go to the ESL Cafe discussion forum and ask around. You will find a lot of "negative" people, who can be your comrades and your competition. Every schmuck with a 3-year degree and a box full of manga wants to come to Japan and pay their way through life with eikaiwa jobs, and I've found most of them to be fairly uninterested in actual teaching. Most leave in 3 years or less. Fact. Reality. These are your competitors, and most are 10-12 years younger than you. Their naivete about business and contracts often gets them work where a person more savvy about the world (such as you) might balk at the shoddy business practices and contracts here...but then you lose out of the jobs. I wonder what your image of eikaiwas is really like.

You have told us you are "planning" to seek work and an old reformable house "in the countryside in Chugoku, Shikoku or Kyushu, probably Kyushu". Ok, that covers a huge amount of ground, and I'm not saying you have zero percent chance of finding what you want (but I focus on work). THAT would be negative! For all I know, you could very well be very fortunate in finding your dream house. I have colleagues working in most of the places you are seeking, so I'm drawing on their work knowledge as well, so this is once again not just "my" reality.

By all means, please come here, sniff around, and then after you have been here 6-10 months, tell us what reality you are experiencing. You seem to have a ton of money to burn in your search. I honestly and sincerely wish you the best of luck. Your family is depending on it.

You are a dreamer and Glenski is talking sense. What will your child do in 18 years time when your house is crumbling and the floor is caving in. Japanese houses need to be rebuilt every 20 years or so. What will happen when your children want to go to high school and they fail the entry test and the only way to get them into high school is to pay for a private one. What happens if you have 2 more children and they all want to go to university? Will you have the money then after having earned 800 dollars a month. I make more than 800 dollars per day and I still found it tough sending my children to university. My advice to you would be do not make the move, stay were you are and earn the money.
I will give you a person example:
I was thinking about moving to Japan again and asked a few questions on this board and got the usual negative responses. I decided to go on vacation to Japan to see the sakura. It was a big eye opener, after being in the Qatar for years I realized that I didn't really want to live in Japan and it was just nostalgia. After living among my own people I found it painful in Japan, the kanji signs and language although interesting were no longer fun. So, I suggest you do what Glenski says spend a bit of time here, rent a holiday cottage in rural Japan and spend 1 or 2 months per year here. Get it out your system and give up the dream, make money while you can and you will be able to retire 50% in Japan and 50% in Australia. I plan to retire in Spain, somewhere in the middle east and have a small cottage in rural kyushu with its own onsen by the beach.

Ishibai you're entitled to your opinion, as is Glenski.
From the sounds of it we are very different people.
Yes I am a dreamer (I take that as a compliment), and I will follow that dream. It's worked so far.
Are you seriously telling me you earn $4000 a week and struggling to send your kids to uni? Come on, maybe you need to rethink.
I'm not going to Japan because I find the Kanji signs interesting, or because I'm nostalgic about it...
or because of some sort of Orientalist fantasy.
I only started going to Japan because I met a girl in London 15 years ago, quite by chance, and that was her home country.
We've been going there for 12 years, for at least a month a year but usually 2, sometimes 6. We spent the whole of 2013 there.
I'm moving there because my wife wants to be near her old parents and because we can afford to build the life we want to live there, no doubt a life that would seem alien to you.
We don't like living in Australia, it's dry, literally and figuratively, and we don't to bring up children here. We'd just end up in a a hum-drum life paying a mortgage, with no TIME to smell the roses, looking forward to the mythical idyllic retirement at the end of rainbow,
the onsen by the beach....

Hello JoeAndCo,
My advice is to follow your dream.
You know Japan well enough to have a good idea of the pros and cons of living here. Use part of the funds you have from the sale of your Australian property to give you a bit of breathing space and decide where you want to live first.

If you are really inaka then you will have to use your 'go get it' enthusiam to land some English teaching work. I think you could manage to build up enough students to make 100,000 yen a month pretty quickly if you have the right attitude.
You mentioned starting up your own business. Keep looking for the right place to build or buy and do some research before jumping in. A catering business is one of the highest risk enterprises there is, but the capital outlay to launch a small restaurant or cafe in Japan is very low compared to Australia for example.

One thing I would think carefully about when choosing where you want to live / set up shop, is your child and his or her future schooling. The kid's opportunities may be limited or could have to endure some horrible commutes to JHS or HS in the years to come..

My daughters wanted to go to ivy league in the USA it costs around 50.000 dollars per year each.

Ishibai you're entitled to your opinion, as is Glenski.

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Don't lump me with him. I have given you more facts than opinion, by the way.

Try, that's it. You may succeed. Or not. But don't ask for answers if you're not ready to hear them.