Work Life Balance in Japan?

All I am getting out of the thread is half truths and a whole heap of "I heard that they do this because so and so said that what they do!". How many of you work in a Japanese company that don't teach English or that have not been hired for your ability to speak and understand English(in other words you never come in contact with other westerners as a job requirement) , but require all your work to be done in Japanese and that alone? Why I ask this is b/c working in a Japanese company means you are part of a team and it is not good to think only of yourself like we "westerners" do. You will never ever be thought of part of the team with those attitudes and I see so many westerners complain that they are they are allways considered outsiders and wonder why. The only reason why they put up with these attitudes from westerners is by continuing to treat them like "westerners". There is an expectation from the staff to work as a team and leaving early all the time is not doing so. Sure there are times when you could probably go home a little bit early, but doing so often can show selfishness.

I don't think that sitting at a desk trying to look busy when all your work is done makes any sense. It also is frustrating to think that calling your wife to tell her you are going to be late...REALLY LATE...is selfish. I have been told that numerous times that my expecting my husband to call to let me know he will be late is selfish on his part and mine. I just don't see it...it's called common courtesy.

FrustratedDave said:

All I am getting out of the thread is half truths and a whole heap of "I heard that they do this because so and so said that what they do!". How many of you work in a Japanese company that don't teach English or that have not been hired for your ability to speak and understand English(in other words you never come in contact with other westerners as a job requirement) , but require all your work to be done in Japanese and that alone?

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Hi, that would be me. The rest of what you wrote is pretty meaningless - we might be a team but everyone in a team has their own responsibilities and it doesn't mean that everyone is dependant on everyone else.

It seems the hardest concept to latch onto about the Japanese work ethic is the commitment difference in traditionally western business relationships vs the japanese model. "Western" employees have a less casual relationship; more of a "you are lucky I showed up to help you make money today" attitude. Very few people in any place I have worked have not at one time or another commented on how such and such company was paying more or how they had their resume out.. completely willing to drop the social network of their current employer to reach for bigger and better. I can see how the Japanese notoriety for team building and less individualized focus in the workplace has been to a great benefit for the country. Your employer becomes more than just a paycheck- -you psychologically bond with the people you work with and in turn are much less likely to leave.


Besides, why would you not throw yourself into your job if it is what you do every day? If you look at the time spent at work in comparison to at home for even the most casual work culture it is rather low on actual home time. Focusing on establishing stability through working dedication makes the homelife work in it's own way. "Westerners" may not exactly understand it, but satisfaction comes in many forms. My father ran a small business and subsequently worked ridiculous hours for many of my younger years. Sometimes I resented it a bit, but overall it came down to realizing the reason he was doing it was to secure our family's future. Sometimes there are simply not enough hours in the day to do what you want to do, but often there are enough to do what you need to do and hope the meaning is understood.


In turn you may see yourself as more of a supporting external force and risk disconnecting (which I suppose is the actual problem and pretty much unresolved by my rant... .) At the very least I would think the personal satisfaction of working so hard would be met in the short term by learning to love where you are in the world and who you work with. I would rather my family I support wish me to be happy as well for the work I do, rather than ignore the fact I am a person too. Work hard, play hard. They get too too.

It seems the hardest concept to latch onto about the Japanese work ethic is the commitment difference in traditionally western business relationships vs the japanese model.

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It is not a hard concept to understand. What you don't seem to understand is that the posters are commenting on people staying at the office and not doing much if anything, in other words, appearances versus reality.

Western" employees have a less casual relationship; more of a "you are lucky I showed up to help you make money today" attitude.

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I've never met anyone with this attitude that stayed at a job long before being terminated.

"Westerners" may not exactly understand it, but satisfaction comes in many forms.

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Again, we do understand it, but where are you commenting on the main topic as bolded above?

Your father's example is a little different, as like most small business owners he probably was really working!

Aokami has the wrong idea, as gaijinalways already pointed out. People do not stay in the office because there is large amounts of work, they just stay in the office.

Well perhaps my sentiments were harsh, as she did point out correctly the stronger ties to a company in Japan, but this loyalty is fading. The same ties existed in America some 50 years ago, whereas in Japan they just recently started falling apart, in the last 15 years ago. Whether going out drinking with your colleagues and your boss is good or not depnds on those same people. If they are assholes or complete bores, even with me not spending a dime, I would have little interest in going out with them unless I knew it might affect my promotion chances. In that case I would go out with them as little as humanly possible just to keep my chances alive.

Ewok85 said:

Aokami has the wrong idea, as gaijinalways already pointed out. People do not stay in the office because there is large amounts of work, they just stay in the office.

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That depends. I know of places that fit on both ends of the extremes. For example, the hotel I used to work for told us to go home and not to work overtime, but there was simply no possible way to get all of our work done without working overtime. We would sometimes go out drinking and to karaoke together as a way to say "otsukaresama", and it was welcome, let me tell you.

Where I work now...we had two strokes in the past 6 months. Young guys. The whispered word is "karou".

But I know of another hotel that I used to work at, too, actually, where except at certain times of the year, there was no need whatsoever to stay late, and we didn't. We being everyone. There were two foreigners on staff, myself and a Chinese woman. Everyone else was Japanese.

I've never met anyone with this attitude that stayed at a job long before being terminated.

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As long as they're performing well and not overtly causing problems I see nothing wrong with this attitude. Employers ask far too much of their employees these days.

There's a major class action being launched right now in Toronto between workers of the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce and some of its bank tellers. CIBC has made it incredibly difficult for its employees to claim overtime pay, yet makes it equally difficult for them to go home on time without losing face or looking bad. The woman spearheading the lawsuit is owed somewhere in the neighbourhood of $50,000 in overtime.

Now if you're talking about a vocation thats worth its weight in salt, such as emergency services, medical services, some job where people are your main concern and you affect real lives, yes I'd say its important for one to love their job.

But in most cases I say work to live not live to work. Burning up you free time shuffling around the office to look busy is pathetic, even if you don't wanna go home to your nagging wife at least go out to a hostess bar or something, whatever your pleasure is. And if you've got a family or you love your wife, it's even worse, go home to them!

I know a japanese girls family where her mother works "part-time" this was 6 days a week, 8 - 5 or something. Wonder what full time was like....

The Japanese certainly live to work.

Western" employees have a less casual relationship; more of a "you are lucky I showed up to help you make money today" attitude.

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But again, this attitude seems more contemptous than merely not liking your job. People who don't think much of showing up generally don't last long at most places. I try to explain that to my students, not showing up and often coming late are bad attitudes to keep. Then again, you also need to do something when you do show up as well.

As Frustrated Dave points out, there is a cultural difference. North Americans tend to view their work in individual terms, so whenever they are done their own tasks for the day they leave. Japanese tend to view work as more in terms of a group, so they leave work together when the group has finished even if their personal tasks were already done.

Anyway, crazy long work hours isn't unique to Japan. I'm just finishing law school in Canada. When I start working at a law firm next year I expect to put in 15-16 hour days on a regular basis, which isn't unusual in that field. They pay a lot of lip service to "work-life balance" but really its a myth.

work. work. work harder.
Die when coming to want to play.


i think there are two kind of ppl.
1)one is contented as the employee.
2)the other is to want to start an enterprise.

2) ...should give up " Work Life Balance"

Work hard, play harder

My new company is a large foreign financial company which has a 50-50 foreign-Japanese staff mix. So far I've had a really good impression, the importance of the work-life balance was made clear to me early on, and while the staff work hard, including early mornings, late nights, and even weekend work, the company gives them equal time off as they recognise they the employees are giving up their own personal time for the betterment of the company.

Anyway, crazy long work hours isn't unique to Japan. I'm just finishing law school in Canada. When I start working at a law firm next year I expect to put in 15-16 hour days on a regular basis, which isn't unusual in that field. They pay a lot of lip service to "work-life balance" but really its a myth.

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For specialized fields like yours and doctors, as examples here, sure they work hard and long hours, but the compensation is commensurate with the amount of work done. Or at least the opportunity exists if not now, sometime in the future.

Here it's the average worker that is putting in the hours, either for "face-time" or actually working. The compensation is not commensurate for the amount of work done or hours spent and the opportunity doesnt exist for it in the future either.

either for "face-time" or actually working. The compensation is not commensurate for the amount of work done or hours spent and the opportunity doesnt exist for it in the future either

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basicaly, The overtime pay adheres for general worker in most companies from 6pm.

the problem is management class ppl. they are not in the labor union

My second younger brother was promoted to the executive job of a certain bank this year. He grieved because the salary fell because there is no overtime pay

Its not soo drastically different in America. I wake up at 5. I go to school I come home and 4. My parents come home at around 8. 2 or 3 hours later after dinner and such. They are asleep and so am I for the next day. Most of my time is spent outside of the house. Most of my parents time is spent at work.