Words that ridicule a specific group or people

WHAT in the bloody F is everybody's MFing problem lately? Could you just leave me the F out of it please?

What's the problem? I'm not talking about Zorro, I'm talking zorro. I explained the meaning earlier. Honestly, if you aren't a zorro, as defined earlier (a 'brick wall'-type debater), it shouldn't offend you, according to your logic. Like, if you say gay as in 'sucks', it shouldn't offend gays, because your weren't talking about homosexuals in your intent, right? Something like that, right? I don't know why that annoys you at all, since you take pride in being a logic-based machine.
 
No idea what your point is, Aqualung. Equality is not about making James Bond gay.
I understand. I wasn't stressing equality with this particular point though.

I was pointing out a potential drawback to the Straight White Male model-image. The straight white male, or actually straight males in general, are specifically targeted by advertisements to live up to an unattainable standard. And when not lived up to, have that used against us. Our intelligence is insulted by suggestions that if we drive a certain car, drink a certain drink, etc.; we will attract those of the opposite sex (and I admit to falling for it in my earlier high school years).

From what I can tell, the gay community is not targeted that way...yet. Does that make their situation better? No. It's just something to consider when considering the not so rosey straight white male model-image that is promoted in society.
 
I understand. I wasn't stressing equality with this particular point though.

I was pointing out a potential drawback to the Straight White Male model-image. The straight white male, or actually straight males in general, are specifically targeted by advertisements to live up to an unattainable standard. And when not lived up to, have that used against us. Our intelligence is insulted by suggestions that if we drive a certain car, drink a certain drink, etc.; we will attract those of the opposite sex (and I admit to falling for it in my earlier high school years).

From what I can tell, the gay community is not targeted that way...yet. Does that make their situation better? No. It's just something to consider when considering the not so rosey straight white male model-image that is promoted in society.

So what does this have to do with using slurs as insults, and the topic in general?
 
Destiny on Skype with viewer who threatened to report him - Starcraft 2 - YouTube

Here is a good discussion on destiny a famous starcraft two player who debates a guy who reports him for saying things like nigger, and other "offensive" words. I recommend to watch.
That was pretty interesting.

On a side but related note (I heard him use the word gay in the video), I saw a commercial last night promoting the idea that society needs to veer away from using phrases like "that is so gay" so as not to bring offense.
 
On a side but related note (I heard him use the word gay in the video), I saw a commercial last night promoting the idea that society needs to veer away from using phrases like "that is so gay" so as not to bring offense.

Language is a funny thing. You describe it as 'not to bring offence' rather than as to not be offensive. There's this strong trend these days toward placing responsibility on the people reacting rather than the people instigating. Let's look at the situation:

Group A dislikes having the chosen word for their group used as a negative thing.
Group B complains that their freedom of speech is being impeded since they like using that work to degrade things.

Why does the right to be an *** always out-trump the right to be treated equally? Wired had a great article on a slightly related topic today:
Why I'm Never Going Back to Penny Arcade Expo | Underwire | Wired.com
Being an adult is about recognizing that the right to say something doesn't make it okay to say. It's about recognizing that you are not the only person with feelings and opinions. It's about understanding power differentials and the difference between criticism and bullying, and learning to examine and be accountable for your own actions and their consequences. It's about caring more about not harming other people than about whether their subsequent upset inconveniences you. It's about being decent as well as being right.
Is it so much to ask that people consider others before they consider their personal right to do every damn thing they feel like doing?

It's something I appreciate about living in Japan. People aren't repressed here, but they also don't feel the need to invoke the idea that their personal situation trumps all. So people get along fairly well.

(In advance of the possible 'why can't minorities do that too when they hear those words' argument... If A wants to tell B they ******* suck and don't because of respect for the others feelings, is A, not being able to insult B, more put out than B, having to be hated on? I say the target of hate is, by a long margin. If you think losing your right to say offensive, insulting stuff makes you a victim, you deserve heaps of abuse.)
 
Language is a funny thing. You describe it as 'not to bring offence' rather than as to not be offensive. There's this strong trend these days toward placing responsibility on the people reacting rather than the people instigating. Let's look at the situation:

Group A dislikes having the chosen word for their group used as a negative thing.
Group B complains that their freedom of speech is being impeded since they like using that work to degrade things.

Why does the right to be an *** always out-trump the right to be treated equally? Wired had a great article on a slightly related topic today:
Why I'm Never Going Back to Penny Arcade Expo | Underwire | Wired.com

Is it so much to ask that people consider others before they consider their personal right to do every damn thing they feel like doing?

It's something I appreciate about living in Japan. People aren't repressed here, but they also don't feel the need to invoke the idea that their personal situation trumps all. So people get along fairly well.

(In advance of the possible 'why can't minorities do that too when they hear those words' argument... If A wants to tell B they ******* suck and don't because of respect for the others feelings, is A, not being able to insult B, more put out than B, having to be hated on? I say the target of hate is, by a long margin. If you think losing your right to say offensive, insulting stuff makes you a victim, you deserve heaps of abuse.)
I think you've been misunderstanding me. I don't think people should be allowed (like in school) or encouraged to heap insults on others with abusive words. As far as my wording in regards to that commercial, I don't think it would make much difference if I said it the way you suggested. I never use that phrase. I also don't like that phrase.

However, in the adult world I've worked with gay people, and seen the jesting they do among themselves using terms like faggot, queer, etc. And we also hear black people call themselves niggers as well. When I was in elementary school, I went to a school where the majority of the students were non-white, mostly black. At that time, I did at times use the word nigger. Of course now I would never call anyone that.

So it certainly can get fairly confusing when it comes to what we should and shouldn't say, when a word is offensive, and when it isn't, when it's tossed around indiscriminately.

And as I pointed out, the media has a way of working racial slurs (including jokes, suggestions, etc.) to where it becomes widely acceptable within that media outlet. I suspect that Michael Richards, and the DJ Don Imus probably thought they could get away with their jokes/rants because they've seen others get away with it like Lisa Lamponelli (who jokingly claimed that Michael Richards stole her lines if I recall correctly), who used certain strategies to allow for the usage of racial jokes, slurs, etc.

My main original point concerning the word nigger, was that if I or anyone is going to discuss the issue of racism without targeting anyone with insults; does it make sense to say honky, Wop (I'm half Italian by the way), etc., and then when I or anyone gets to the subject of black racial slurs, have to say The N Word? Or, should someone then have to say The H Word, and The W Word?
 
You can say it, but you should tread lightly. Bill Maher is an example of someone who says the word when discussing it. But, as I already said, the value of the words are very different. If a person stubs their toe, and another has a leg amputated, it is true they have both suffered. But it would be foolish to say those are comparable for the sake of equality. That's about what your comparisons do in this case. Those words are not equal, and members of the oppressing group may not use terms against members of the oppressed group without problems coming up. Makes sense to me.
 
There are in fact many people who (including myself) who believe that using circumlocutions like 'the N word' when discussing the word 'nigger' really serve only to further deepen the power that the word has to hurt people. You're creating the impression that "this word is so bad that even in an academic discussion of the word itself, it is too powerful to utter".

This doesn't harm anyone in particular with the saxon words for copulation and defecation and so on that are subject to this treatment (I'd specify them but I believe this forum filters them or prohibits them or both); it may contribute to body shyness and awkwardness with such topics, but then again, there's plenty of other words to replace anything in the FCC-forbidden words.

With a racial term like 'nigger', however, it's a special case because it or its close cousin 'nigga' are constantly used in rap lyrics and comedy routines. In other words, at the same time that well-meaning but misguided efforts are actually making the word a more potent slur than it already was, a natural evolution of the word into a reclaimed, redefined, non-slur usage are going on. Either stamping the word out of common usage or reclaiming it would equally well remove its power. However, you can't do both at the same time, and I'm pretty sure that 'nigga' isn't going to disappear from the vocabulary of black urban entertainers anytime soon, nor are those kinds of entertainers becoming any less popular.
 
But sometimes people say nigger without any actual relevance to the original meaning. You will hear people calling white people nigger all the time. I think it could be said as long as you don't spew it everywhere until the point where its clearly making fun of people. Same goes for all words
 
But sometimes people say nigger without any actual relevance to the original meaning. You will hear people calling white people nigger all the time. I think it could be said as long as you don't spew it everywhere until the point where its clearly making fun of people. Same goes for all words

And people call straight people fag all the time. The words still carry the weight of their original meaning.

If you want justification to use such words freely, you can find the logic if you work at it enough. But it's not going to change the reality of the situation, where those words still hurt large segments of the population.
 
What's the problem? I'm not talking about Zorro, I'm talking zorro. I explained the meaning earlier. Honestly, if you aren't a zorro, as defined earlier (a 'brick wall'-type debater), it shouldn't offend you, according to your logic. Like, if you say gay as in 'sucks', it shouldn't offend gays, because your weren't talking about homosexuals in your intent, right? Something like that, right? I don't know why that annoys you at all, since you take pride in being a logic-based machine.

Nahadeaf. No, not talking about YOU of course. Just pointing out that you are not listening and I just made that word up out of nothing. (sigh)
 
And people call straight people fag all the time. The words still carry the weight of their original meaning.

If you want justification to use such words freely, you can find the logic if you work at it enough. But it's not going to change the reality of the situation, where those words still hurt large segments of the population.
There is a big difference here though... some of the time. When straight people (or more accurately, people who are not openly known to be gay) are called 'fag' or the like, it's clearly a put-down.

'nigger' can be used in a sense of, say, complimenting dance moves, 'damn, nigga, you can really shake it' or the like. In this case the word is taking on a meaning like 'bro'.

'fag' is never used in a complimentary way to my knowledge, at least not outside the gay community.

I don't have the patience to listen through hours of video gamers arguing with each other to find the actual usage that spurred this topic, but in short a usage like 'You damn nigger, you killed me with a dirty trick' is very potentially offensive regardless of the actual skin color of the opponent. A use like this continues to denigrate the original target of the slur even if the current listener isn't part of that group.

A usage like 'Hot damn, nigger, that was some sweet moves you pulled' is not really offensive except to people taking offense to the very existence of the word. (Well, assuming it's not a white speaker and a black listener and a sarcastic tone, which could put a totally different meaning to the same set of words, but I created the example assuming a sincere compliment.) A usage like this changes the meaning of the word and undermines its power to hurt.

I really don't know or care that much how Destiny actually uses the word, but I expect it is more like the first and less like the second. I have trouble imagine people getting up in arms about what word was used in phrasing a compliment.
 
Copying people's jokes is lame. Get your own rhetoric.
 
As long as you got the point that an individual can't claim that because a word doesn't have negative connotations for them personally, it should be considered inoffensive, I'm satisfied. I won't continue to use zorro as a slur. Except with Frustrated Dave, since he's a total nth degree zorro. Dude's brain is totally calcified.
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And people call straight people fag all the time. The words still carry the weight of their original meaning.

If a homosexual person gets offended by this in a non related context , I honestly think they should deal with it. There is nothing wrong with being homosexual, but I believe that there is nothing wrong with saying nigger,fag in specific contexts. I watched letianchen's videos, I actually already knew about destiny. He brings up a point rather humorously, on whether he should stop saying the word "rape" because some people get offended by this word, and he asks where do we draw the line. Its rather valid if you ask me.
 
You can say it, but you should tread lightly.

I agree, but I think that should be done with all racial slurs equally. Not just the term nigger.

Bill Maher is an example of someone who says the word when discussing it.

Yes, but he does it tactfully. He says it in such a way that it gets diverted to another party. His political rivals.

Getting back to Lisa Lamponelli, she doesn't employ the same tactic when using slur words on other non-white racial groups, homosexuals, and the the handicapped. And the other slurs she uses are very offensive. She will attack a Filipino in the audience, and that's pretty much it. No assault and flattery method, following up with any ego-boosting of Filipino males. Slur words for Filipinos are just as bad as far as I'm concerned as slur words for blacks and anyone else.

And yes, fag is a big part of her vocabulary. And the only push back that she received that I know of was not by any racial/ethnic group or homosexuals, but by a handicapped group.


But, as I already said, the value of the words are very different. If a person stubs their toe, and another has a leg amputated, it is true they have both suffered. But it would be foolish to say those are comparable for the sake of equality. That's about what your comparisons do in this case. Those words are not equal, and members of the oppressing group may not use terms against members of the oppressed group without problems coming up. Makes sense to me.
And I agree that terms like honky, cracker, and white boy don't carry the same weight as nigger. And I agree that if a white person gets referred to as one of those, they shouldn't fall apart over it. But I would also say that it's just as wrong for anyone to use those terms in a pejorative manner as any other.
 
I've explained why it's not okay to use derogatory words, and I'll finish by saying I find it embarrassing to see white people create reasons they think it's okay to use words that help perpuate a power imbalance in society. Society has such a 'me me me' problem, and so little consideration for others.
 
I think that by trying the crack down on derogatory word use, we're punishing the wrong group of people. Some people have recognised the fact that insults don't affect their material well-being, the rest are stupid. I think that the presence of the ability to drive oneself into a berserker rage/hysteria fueled by a perceived slight is, in fact, a developmental deficiency - some people are just plain idiots. Some people will feel a little offended, but they'll be reasonable enough to brush it off as nothing more than a harmless insult. But then there are those who are so domineering as to wish to censor how others express themselves, hoping to eliminate certain thoughts, and thus the freedom to 'think them,' from society.
 
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