Words that ridicule a specific group or people

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coolio123

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Hi I had a discussion the other day with a person close to me about if we should use words that a specific group of people find offensive. For example a more common one today is what we call the n word I suppose which some people take offence too. Do you think words like this are acceptable to say if the intention of not making fun of the person is clear. For example people in video games, when they lose will tend to say things like damn, and then follow it up with a cuss word which specific groups may not like. They are not directing it at anyone per say, but rather just saying it like "dang it!" . What is your opinion?
 
If you meant they're using racial epithets or derogatory terms for homosexuality on voice chat after getting killed in a multiplayer game, then no, it's not acceptable. In the first place, if they've just been killed by another player it certainly seems like the terms are aimed at an individual. In the second place, if they've been killed by an NPC within the game then they are insulting that NPC with the hateful term. Even though the NPC is just a digital construct, other players that are listening may in reality have the ethnic identity of that digital construct or may in reality be homosexual. Hearing such terms used hatefully towards a fictitious entity is still painful.

Obviously, in another scenario, when you're cursing at a screen in a single-player game with no one around to overhear, then mostly it really doesn't matter -what- you say since nobody can hear it. However, if you're throwing racial epithets at the NPCs then you may be building a racial bias in yourself and making it easier to use those epithets spontaneously towards real people later on, so, just be aware of what you're doing to your own thinking.
 
If we are speaking of a general word like "damn" that is not directly derogatory to a specific group of people, then no. All offended need a thicker skin.

But words that promote hate are a bit of a problem. I don't hate anyone for belonging to a group or subgroup per se, but people of certain groups will have to do a lot of proving for me to find them worthy, such as those in the military or who have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I use the N-word jokingly, but the thing is, for me, it does not refer to all black people anymore than "redneck" and "hillbilly" refer to all white people. But, the real deal is I don't think those words really apply to races but rather cultures. Black cultures turn out more people I would call the N word and white cultures turn out more people worthy of being called a hillbilly. As far as I am concerned, there can be black hillbillies just there can be white N-words.

But my opinion is not universal, so I am careful about such words like homo, fag, chink, etc.

My biggest lament is that there are not equally offensive words for white people, or equal numbers. I think we could all be more casual if there were. But me, as a white man, if I call you an offensive word usually applied to Native Americans, Asians, or Blacks, what are you going call me to hit me just as hard? I am white and white people are rubber. Everyone else is glue unfortunately.
 
Actually I just find it odd when people get offended to specific words when it is clear there is no intent for making fun of them. Suppose we take the N word, if someone says this in a way where its obvious he/she doesn't even imply that an intent to hate on someone else, I think its more than fine. I honestly can't understand why people are offended by this even if it is not intentional. It is a word, if I hate on a specific word, do we taboo that word from society as well? This whole swearing thing being a bad influence on younger kids just seems like white noise to me.
 
It's an interesting question, and like many, probably no black and white (pun intended) easy answer.

One thing I've noticed (sort of a gimme really) is that here in the States the N word is used with a lot more caution than other racial slurs. And I guess that's why most of us call it the N word. I heard a talk show last night on the radio where the host was interviewing a clansmen, and quoted an alleged quote (the clansmen didn't remember making the quote) that involved a number of racial slurs including the N word. When the host said the N word, it was bleeped out (I think I remember hearing "ni.." right before the bleep letting me know it was the N word), but the other racial slurs were not bleeped out.

I remember an old commercial on love and tolerance (to the point of wanting to shoot the screen) where a cute little white girl is being asked questions by an unseen man. The man is asking the little girl what various racial slurs mean, and verbalizes the various racial slur words in sequence starting with the N word. However it was very clear audio-wise that when he asked the first question; what is a.....?, he (identifying the N word as the first) asked...."what is a nicker?". Of course, the other racial slurs he pronounced in correct format. And of course the little girl's reply to each question was "I don't know" (implying young and innocent etc.).

Now, I think it's been proven that if the N word is marketed in the media properly, it can be used in uncensored complete proper pronunciation. Mel Brooks successfully accomplished this feat in his blockbuster movie Blazing Saddles. At the onset of the movie he barraged the audience with the N word which was rather shocking for that time (around 1973). However, he craftily followed up with presenting an ultra-alpha black male character who continuously outwitted his white antagonizers (including a counter-seduction of a white femme-fatale). So, Mr. Brooks got away with it in flying colors (pun partially intended).

The Queen Of Mean Lisa Lamponelli basically applies the same tactics in her stand-up comedy routines, using any racial slur including the N word. She will use the N word, but somewhere along the line follow up with a *Black male sexual superiority theme (bigger, younger looking, etc.) that pretty much nullifies the negative impact of the N word. Basically, she has a license in a sense to use the N word via marketing technique.

Michael Richards was not licensed in that respect, so is now labeled a racist due to a stand-up comedy rant.

*Although she married a White man.
 
You can't deny the fact that there are cultures that strongly disagrees people from swearing words. So the solution for that is I guess, kind of disciplining yourself from swearing words. I mean, if you're in a foreign country with a different culture that you've used to be with, it's a basic to really be careful of what you utter in your mouth as not all will tolerate it. I'm not against it anyway, in fact, I used to do that. BUT! I've experienced being scolded like a child by other people because of that, so you can't really avoid them from getting pissed or felt something bad about hearing it.:sorry:
 
sure in a foreign country its best to simply do what they do as you are a guest. There is a problem though, where do we draw the line? If a group of people take a random word from the english dictionary that is currently a word and say they find it offensive do we ban it? In my opinion no! I think any "swear/offensive" word if said with the right context and without in an attempt to put someone down is completely acceptable.
 
Tired of beating around the bush, so this white bread honkey suggests we just say nigger from now on.
 
SomeCallMeChris said:
If you meant they're using racial epithets or derogatory terms for homosexuality on voice chat after getting killed in a multiplayer game, then no, it's not acceptable. In the first place, if they've just been killed by another player it certainly seems like the terms are aimed at an individual. In the second place, if they've been killed by an NPC within the game then they are insulting that NPC with the hateful term. Even though the NPC is just a digital construct, other players that are listening may in reality have the ethnic identity of that digital construct or may in reality be homosexual. Hearing such terms used hatefully towards a fictitious entity is still painful.

Obviously, in another scenario, when you're cursing at a screen in a single-player game with no one around to overhear, then mostly it really doesn't matter -what- you say since nobody can hear it. However, if you're throwing racial epithets at the NPCs then you may be building a racial bias in yourself and making it easier to use those epithets spontaneously towards real people later on, so, just be aware of what you're doing to your own thinking.
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Hi, I agree with coolio. Why should you be allowed to say something somewhere but not another place :? To be honest I think alot of people use swearing to get their point across. Like george carlin and such, christopher hitchens a guy I like alot often does the same to a lesser extent. Honestly I have never seen them abuse the word and make fun of people with it. I have seen lots of people say the N word too in real life and the sentence will have nothing to even do with people in general. In real life to people who I know I think I swear ALOT and will say words that some people probably don't know exist ( I guess the result of being a teen) while keeping legitimate discussions. I think its alright isn't it? :?
 
I think you need to keep separate swearing and derogatory epitaphs. If someone says goddam (like me, a dozen times a day), it may offend a thin-skinned Christian, but it's not actually an insult aimed at them.

Epitaphs on the other hand, were made to put groups down. If you want to have a discussion about the meaning of the words, yes, mature people can do that (ie. Carlin, though I only remember him discussing swearing). If you're using them as an insult or to curse, no, that is sad behavior, and I honestly think it's done out of ignorance. As a teen, 'fag' was the standard insult, and I said it, and it's pretty embarrassing now. I'm sure I stopped around 14 or 15. Even calling things 'gay' to mean 'suck' I did too long. In university, I had a gay friend, and she flat out told me, "You're using a word that I identify as to mean 'suck.' That really hurts." And I tried to explain I meant no harm, but then I stopped using it, since she was right.

There's sometimes this notion that people need to be tougher and not get upset, but I really think the opposite is true: people need to be more considerate of others, and not expect everyone to adjust to them just because they're in the habit of calling people fags or whatever.
 
but aren't swear words originally intended for the same purpose? To ridicule someone's idea by calling it stupid, or by telling them they are dumb. Sure maybe it evolved into what it is now :?, but before I don't think that was the case, don't words always evolve. I personally do not say fag alot, although I have said it before, although I don't know any gay people I support them, but still saying the word "fag" is it really something to be offended over? I am just wondering because its hard to know what to say and what not nowadays.😌 I dont say these things to people I am not familiar with at all just to be safe even though I have this belief of they shouldn't mind too much, I dont like starting fights although I have my beliefs.

I mean, is it the guy saying "fag" in a non related context to actual sexual interest who is the problem, or is it the person who condescends people who are homosexual all together :?
 
Swear words are based on taboo things. 200 years ago, it was religion, these days it's based on sex or bodily functions. But those are not slurs.

If you say someone is full of ****, you are saying it about them personally. It is offensive in an intended way. But calling someone a fag, whether they are gay or straight, is to say being homosexual is being less than others. You can say you don't intend that, but it is still what you are actually saying. There is no way to insult someone (in English) as being straight. If you casually use the term, you are reinforcing a negative stereotype, whether you intend to or not.

Why wouldn't you just choose a better, more accurate term for what you want to say, rather than rely on a slur?
 
And I tried to explain I meant no harm, but then I stopped using it, since she was right.
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In fact, I believe that most people using words like "gay" and "fag" do not mean any harm to homosexuals. Its a shame that people cannot think of better words and make them popular more quickly. Of course the next set of words meaning "lame" and "suck" will probably have to do with something def does not want to hear about, but surely they will put down some group.
 
I bet I could think of a dozen ways to insult Zorro without relying on slurring a group of people in the process.

Maybe we could call 'brick wall'-type debaters "zorros" from now on. "I'm giving up on this discussion. You're a total zorro." Not something Zorro could theoretically be offended at, since it's insulting the person it's aimed at, and not the person the word was derived from. I've no time to debate with zorros.
 
Mark of Zorro said:
My biggest lament is that there are not equally offensive words for white people, or equal numbers. I think we could all be more casual if there were. But me, as a white man, if I call you an offensive word usually applied to Native Americans, Asians, or Blacks, what are you going call me to hit me just as hard? I am white and white people are rubber. Everyone else is glue unfortunately.
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The 2 main offensive words for white people, that I know of are honky and cracker. But like probably most racial, ethnic, national slurs, they have multiple meanings (honky-tonk, graham cracker, etc.), or can be used in either a positive or negative context (yankee, canuck). So the terms can be used without being offensive, depending on how it's used. The term nigger of course can never really be used in any other fashion except that of being a racial slur. I'm guessing originally it was just a very lazy way of saying negro, and eventually caught on as a racial slur (I never looked up it's origin).

I think the 2 slurs for white people are actually so week that most people prefer to call us white boys.
 
AquaLung said:
The 2 main offensive words for white people, that I know of are honky and cracker. But like probably most racial, ethnic, national slurs, they have multiple meanings (honky-tonk, graham cracker, etc.), or can be used in either a positive or negative context (yankee, canuck). So the terms can be used without being offensive, depending on how it's used. The term nigger of course can never really be used in any other fashion except that of being a racial slur. I'm guessing originally it was just a very lazy way of saying negro, and eventually caught on as a racial slur (I never looked up it's origin).

I think the 2 slurs for white people are actually so week that most people prefer to call us white boys.
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I can't speak for all white people for obvious reasons, but those words have zero weight in white culture. (and I'm inclined to call any white person offended by honky a douche, which is not a slur, I might add.) Call me a honky, a cracker, or a white boy, and the reply is, yeah? So? Thing is, white people have been on top of society for centuries, which is a great reason for us to consider ourselves now. The past generations are littered with hubris, I am not inclined to be one.

The English language is weighted in favor of straight white males, so the straight white males, above all, need to be generous in how they communicate with others.
 
nahadef said:
I can't speak for all white people for obvious reasons, but those words have zero weight in white culture. (and I'm inclined to call any white person offended by honky a douche, which is not a slur, I might add.) Call me a honky, a cracker, or a white boy, and the reply is, yeah? So? Thing is, white people have been on top of society for centuries, which is a great reason for us to consider ourselves now. The past generations are littered with hubris, I am not inclined to be one.

The English language is weighted in favor of straight white males, so the straight white males, above all, need to be generous in how they communicate with others.
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These words don't carry much weight as far as offense, but they've either died out like honky and cracker, or have been sort of twisted into our favor like White Boy. The term White Boy can be sort of used along with an element of surprise, like a white boy who can sing/play with a lot of rhythm, soul, etc., or can shoot hoops in such a spectacular fashion, becoming a symbol of respect even with the term white boy attached (that white boy has soul, can shoot, can play a mean.... etc.).

Attach the word dirty to white boy, we now have someone with sort of a mystique, like a rebel or outsider. Someone possibly with sexual swagger.

While some may refer to all white people as being white trash, we sort of use this as more of a class category. Like trailer trash. Obviously if someone doesn't live in a trailer, they cannot be trailer trash. If they are educated, law abiding citizens, they can't really be white trash.
 
So those words aren't offensive. Basically, straight white men designed the game (whether consciously or with purpose), so in and of themselves, those words have no power. In English, there are a load of terms for any group not straight white men. The group in power themselves have yet to become a dirty word.

Honky is a penny, while the n-word is a hundred dollar bill. Not even worth bringing up in comparison.
 
nahadef said:
So those words aren't offensive. Basically, straight white men designed the game (whether consciously or with purpose), so in and of themselves, those words have no power. In English, there are a load of terms for any group not straight white men. The group in power themselves have yet to become a dirty word.
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I would say it's true that there is no real slur slang word for the straight white male. And like you said, the English language is weighted in favor of straight white males. However, I wonder if gay people would really like the fantasy image the white straight male is supposed to live up to attached to them, which is really not a positive image at all. Do they really want to see images of a gay James Bond with a harem of young men? Or for that matter (although sort of veering away from the white realm), seeing images of gay middle-eastern sultans with a harem of 40 male wives/slaves?

Do they really want to see commercials using gay men, suggesting that if they buy a certain car, or drink a certain beer or hard liquor, they will score with other gay men?

Honky is a penny, while the n-word is a hundred dollar bill. Not even worth bringing up in comparison.
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I admit that they certainly are not equal in terms of impact. But I'm sure like myself that you favor equality across the board. If, say, for instance someone referencing racism uses the term honky in a paragraph; if he has to use the term the N word in the same paragraph, is that really equality?
 
No idea what your point is, Aqualung. Equality is not about making James Bond gay.
 
nahadef said:
I bet I could think of a dozen ways to insult Zorro without relying on slurring a group of people in the process.

Maybe we could call 'brick wall'-type debaters "zorros" from now on. "I'm giving up on this discussion. You're a total zorro." Not something Zorro could theoretically be offended at, since it's insulting the person it's aimed at, and not the person the word was derived from. I've no time to debate with zorros.
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Well, I do identify with Zorro. But I don't identify much with honkey, cracker, white bread, hillbilly, yankee or redneck. Nor do I identify with homosexual, gay or fag.

The fact that I don't identify much means there is not much sting. But misuse of "Zorro" does bother me.

Since there is so little for me to find offense to, I may be less empathetic than a lot of other people. In other words, I have never been in their shoes so its hard to know what its like in their shoes and respond like I know.

On the other hand, I have to wonder if the word "nigger" is so offense is because so many Blacks identify with the word? If so, why?
 
Mark of Zorro said:
Well, I do identify with Zorro. But I don't identify much with honkey, cracker, white bread, hillbilly, yankee or redneck. Nor do I identify with homosexual, gay or fag.

The fact that I don't identify much means there is not much sting. But misuse of "Zorro" does bother me.

Since there is so little for me to find offense to, I may be less empathetic than a lot of other people. In other words, I have never been in their shoes so its hard to know what its like in their shoes and respond like I know.

On the other hand, I have to wonder if the word "nigger" is so offense is because so many Blacks identify with the word? If so, why?
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And you're acting like a total zorro here. Honky doesn't have power to insult white people. Whitebread, hillbilly and so on are discussing kinds of white people, and still have little power, because they aren't used by white people. English society (as it is now) is constructed from the perspective of straight white males. Honestly, any white person complaining that someone called them a honky is a total whiner.

When you hear 'fag', it should only be offensive from the point of view that someone is claiming homosexuals are lesser people. That should be offensive if you don't think homosexuals are lesser people. Same goes for the other slurs. Maybe you are simply not empathetic. Most non-straight, white males feel uncomfortable to be labeled as a sub-species.
 

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