Why past tense? (The Pie and the Patty-Pan)

[nekocat]

The following is a quote from Beatrix Potter's The Pie and the Patty-Pan. I don't know why she chose to use the past tense in "I did not remember..." sentence. If the author were me, I would write "I don't remember that I have minced it up so fine."
Could you help me understand it?

I think it would be wiser if I helped myself to pie...What very small fine pieces it has cooked into! I did not remember that I had minced it up so fine; I suppose this is a quicker oven than my own.

 

[Kinsao]

The sentence is in the past tense because the action of mincing up the pie filling was done in the past.

Does that make sense to you?

There are other ways the sentence could be said in English and still be 'correct':
"I don't remember that I had minced it up so fine" - the remembering is being done now, but the mincing was done in the past - I think this is still grammatically correct, but the original sentence is more consistent because it keeps the same tense throughout; I'm not sure whether that would be considered 'more correct'; maybe it is simply a more old-fashioned construction.
"I don't remember mincing it up so fine" - that is more like what I would say in speaking; it's slightly more 'casual' and I think more 'up to date' (Beatrix Potter uses rather old-fashioned English). The remembering is in the present ("I don't remember [right now]"); the mincing is in the continuous.

Hope I haven't just confused things more!

 

[Goldiegirl]

I could be wrong here...but I think "I don't remember that I had minced it up so fine." is right. If you take out the contraction it would read " I do not remember that I had minced it up so fine.", that doesn't sound right I think you would have to use the word did, as in "I didn't remember that I had minced it up so fine." Just a guess.

 

[made of stone]

A delightful tale indeed!

I agree - unless I'm reading it wrong, the use of the past seems a little strange here (as the thinking back seems to be happening in the present, as she tries the pie). In that case, I would write:

I don't remember that I minced it up so fine.

or (more naturally):

I don't remember mincing it up so fine.


It could be like this for any one of a number of reasons:

- a mistake by Miss Potter that wasn't edited out (imo, the Harry Potter books show us that even the most famous of novels are not necessarily edited properly, or carefully enough!)

- a regional form of the sentence

- a form that was acceptable 100 years ago, that isn't anymore. (I don't think this is particularly likely, but it is a common problem when using older literature to learn contemporary English)

- etc etc

 

[pugtm]

She is talking in third person about herself. So she is saying that in the past she forgot she cut the pie which would make it correct. If she was talking in first person she would have to write in the present tense.

 

[Kinsao]

She is talking in third person about herself. So she is saying that in the past she forgot she cut the pie which would make it correct. If she was talking in first person she would have to write in the present tense.

I think there is some slight confusion about 'third person' and 'first person' here. First person is when you talk about 'I' - so she is still talking in first person. If she had said "she did not remember that she had minced it up so fine", that would be third person.

 

[pugtm]

I think there is some slight confusion about 'third person' and 'first person' here. First person is when you talk about 'I' - so she is still talking in first person. If she had said "she did not remember that she had minced it up so fine", that would be third person.

Yeah sorry i always get the two confused

 

[Mars Man]

Nekocat san, I'd like to hear your theory of why the past tense may have been used there, and your supporting arguments.

Obviously the meaning is clear, but you question why the past tense is being used instead of present tense. Obviously the past tense usage there is not in error, of course, and fits with the past perfect in that sentence, so, why might it have been chosen over another style?

I'd hope to hear from you on that, nekocat san ! This is a good example to exercise critical thinking !!

 

[bakaKanadajin]

First off..

If the author were me

Should be "If I was the author" or you could say "If I'd written this"

Now.. to the question at hand..

"I did not remember that I had minced it up so fine".. must be broken into two parts. To be honest it's one of those sentences that sounds stranger the more you say it aloud, but, sounds okay the first time you read it.

I did not remember.. = I didn't remember
So the sentence is indicating that the act of not remembering happened in the past. It's a simple past strucutre. I did not eat, I didn't sleep, I didn't remember.

I had minced it so fine.. = I'd minced it so fine
It's a past perfect sentence, indicating that the act of mincing has finished. Other examples.. I had stopped, I had not pushed, etc.

As someone else pointed out, these days you'd say "I didn't remember mincing it so fine" or "I don't remember mincing it so fine", depending on when you're doing the remembering. And that is very acceptable.

However because we use the verb 'remember', the word 'that' can be inserted. I do not know the grammatical term for this kind of structuring, maybe someone else can chime in here, but when you have a thinking or saying verb such as tell, say, think, remember, recall, etc., you can use reported speech and the word 'that' to be more formal.

"I didn't think that she'd heard me talking to her sister"
"I shouldn't have said that the movie was boring"
"I seem to recall that you said you were moving to Tokyo"

So in combining the two, we have the speaker reporting on themselves.

"I did not remember that I had minced it so fine".

It IS akward, but it's not incorrect as far as I can tell. Using perfectly formal syntax sometimes results in akward but correct things.