Why is this forum so slow?

noyhauser said:

I'd like to re-raise my plea for more stringent moderation on the forums.

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The so-called idea of healthy balance of freedom of speech and whatever else is in fact always leads to the kingdom of merely personal opinions and very subjective judgements. The line is fine and in a case with you it always means only what you find "healthy". All others are always wrong even if they are objectively right. We are all adults and should know how to deal with internet trash. I see idiots and trolls and deal with them like with idiots and trolls. I don't need admin or mods to do that.

let`s talk said:

The so-called idea of healthy balance of freedom of speech and whatever else is in fact always leads to the kingdom of merely personal opinions and very subjective judgements. The line is fine and in a case with you it always means only what you find "healthy". All others are always wrong even if they are objectively right. We are all adults and should know how to deal with internet trash. I see idiots and trolls and deal with them like with idiots and trolls. I don't need admin or mods to do that.

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The problem with this is that you are neither a moderator, or administrator, and therefore it is not your right on this forum to act like either.

Thor said:

The problem with this is that you are neither a moderator, or administrator, and therefore it is not your right on this forum to act like either.

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Eer?? Am I acting like an admin or mod? Are you sure you read me well? Maybe my bad English confused you. What I said is that I can deal with trolls and idiots in the internet myself in open forums without asking forum authorities to ban posters. That is all.

let`s talk said:

Eer?? Am I acting like an admin or mod? Are you sure you read me well? Maybe my bad English confused you. What I said is that I can deal with trolls and idiots in the internet myself in open forums without asking forum authorities to ban posters. That is all.

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Please, don't use poor mastery over the English language as an excuse.

Thor said:

Please, don't use poor mastery over the English language as an excuse.

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I used google translate to understand this phrase and I failed. Sorry.

let`s talk said:

The so-called idea of healthy balance of freedom of speech and whatever else is in fact always leads to the kingdom of merely personal opinions and very subjective judgements. The line is fine and in a case with you it always means only what you find "healthy". All others are always wrong even if they are objectively right. We are all adults and should know how to deal with internet trash. I see idiots and trolls and deal with them like with idiots and trolls. I don't need admin or mods to do that.

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What's sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander as they say. While you able to overcome offensive comments and continue posting, many won't (Particularly if they are arriving on the boards for the first time.) They will see or encounter a deeply offensive posts, then move somewhere else. Even long term members get worn down by dealing with these people, and just walk away. Thats a loss for JREF.

Hate-speech is hate speech, whether its aimed at one group or another. To some degree we've tried the "community policing" approach and it hasn't worked. Your attempts at dealing with caster here failed miserably. Community policing is effective when the individual actually has the desire to engage in useful debate. Then they might respond. However most of these individuals don't. They claim they do, but if you watch their posting behavior they don't. The situation can only be dealt with by the individuals who are appointed to moderate the forum, as they are the only ones with the requisite authority to do so.

I like this forum because I can ask questions, and I get answers. That is the beauty of an educational forum, I think. I haven't posted because I haven't been studying, for good reasons. I know I am annoying, but if people don't like it, they don't have to respond.

Putrefaction said:

I like this forum because I can ask questions, and I get answers. That is the beauty of an educational forum, I think. I haven't posted because I haven't been studying, for good reasons. I know I am annoying, but if people don't like it, they don't have to respond.

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I agree completely, until you become a disruption.

noyhauser said:

Your attempts at dealing with caster here failed miserably.

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Funny to see how you gave an example from a CLOSED thread. The sentence you were quoting was only the beginning. I could have continued talking to the caster and you on the topic if the line had still been open. Ironically I didn't get this chance, thanks to the moderation that got the thread locked. By the way, what the caster posts, either trolling or not, is the direct result of the Japanese school system and their textbooks. When ALT teachers go to schools, they will not hear a la caster stuff directly from students. But thanks to reading posters like him online, they have a chance to get a slight clue what ideas are or might be inside students' heads.

let`s talk said:

Funny to see how you gave an example from a CLOSED thread. The sentence you were quoting was only the beginning. I could have continued talking to caster, as well as to you, ontopic if the thread had been still open. Ironically I didn't get this chance thanks to the moderation that got the thread locked..

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Did you not notice that Caster has been on the board for over 5 years and has almost 2000 posts, almost all of them displaying his nationalistic stripes? Did you know that for three years he was confronted by day after day of constant contradictory proof by about a dozen chinese, korean and Japanese posters. The result? Even more vitriol and trolling on his part, now with embeddable youtube videos. The latest proof is in the locked atomic bomb thread. There he told a 85 year old witness of the Japanese occupation of Indonesia that she had nothing to complain about and that it was good that she held a grudge. Believing that you could do anything to change his mind just flies in the face of facts. You could be a 95 year old witness of Nanking, with photos of 100000 dead bodies and original documents proving that Japanese commanders ordered the massacre, and he'd still ignore you. The fact that you started a discussion with him using an insult suggests that your ability to actually reason with him is non-existent.

Claim otherwise all you want, but letting posting like that continue for this long is the precise reason why the politics forum became a discussion wasteland years ago. People like myself and others left because we had enough of dealing with the propaganda being thrown out by both sides and the lack of any effective debate. I think there are some encouraging signs now, we have a couple of decent discussions starting and maybe they will grow in the future.

noyhauser said:

you started a discussion with him using an insult suggests that your ability to actually reason with him is non-existent.

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You got me absolutely wrong. I had neither the intention, nor the desire to reason him. When I said I can deal with him, I didn't mean I was going to re-educate him and make him a better person. Why would I bother. I meant that I can use the old weapon and logic: troll trolls and abuse abusers, the only things that can be effective against him. Or just ignore him. I agree some people can be more sensitive to what he posts but you can't ignore tha fact: he is the reality that does exist in Japan. The online form of that reality is just more violentic but it doesn't change the fact itself. You can't escape it by banning the reality. Also, stricter moderation always leads to playing favorites, unfair judgements and as the result the number of trolls increased while the number of real posters and good topics decreased.

let`s talk said:

I meant that I can use the old weapon and logic: troll trolls and abuse abusers, the only things that can be effective against him.

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Yeah thats a recipe for success... lets add more verbal garbage and that will solve the problem. Oh wait thats what happened and look at the outcome. I really don't think you've thought this through at all because its an immature response to a serious problem.

let`s talk said:

Or just ignore him. I agree some people can be more sensitive to what he posts but you can't ignore tha fact: he is the reality that does exist in Japan. The online form of that reality is just more violentic but it doesn't change the fact itself. You can't escape it by banning the reality.

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Who said anything about "ignoring reality?" I don't think there isn't a person who is contributing that doesn't know about Japanese nationalism or its views. However if a person is sprouting racist views and disrupting others participation, then its only hindering the board from being productive. Look how he took a discussion about A-bomb and turned it into another thread about Nanking and Japanese nationalism. Who wants to participate in that? I don't and apparently neither does alot of people.

let`s talk said:

Also, stricter moderation always leads to playing favorites, unfair judgements and as the result the number of trolls increased while the number of real posters and good topics decreased.

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What proof do you have of that except your own word? In my experience participating on many forums and being an administrator on a corporate forum, establishing strong rules for participation and consistently enforcing them is actually the fairest system possible. This is the only board that I participate in that allowed hate speech of this type to continue unmoderated and look what happened.

noyhauser said:

What proof do you have of that except your own word?

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I can give you the names of at least three forums (two of them are Japan-related) where stricter moderation brought the results I was talking about. I can PM you if you want. I just don't want to discuss the details about other forums here.

let`s talk said:

I can give you the names of at least three forums (two of them are Japan-related) where stricter moderation brought the results I was talking about. I can PM you if you want. I just don't want to discuss the details about other forums here.

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I think that one of the forums you showed me had that amount of members and activity because of the amount of content, and that they kept updating that content. I am not sure about the moderation there, they only have 2 admins whom are active, the other moderators haven't been on that forum for over months/years.

Thanks for the links though.

let`s talk said:

I agree some people can be more sensitive to what he posts but you can't ignore tha fact: he is the reality that does exist in Japan. The online form of that reality is just more violentic but it doesn't change the fact itself.

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In reality the revisionists have been almost completely marginalized in Japanese politics and government the last 3 or 4 years and their influence virtually non-existent under the current ruling party (although of course there are sympathizers).Their influence is simply inversely proportional to the amount of noise they are capable of generating through JREF and other various media outlets.

Even conservative PMs like Abe Shinzō recognized the value of strong relationships with both South Korea and China and were more than willing to admit horrendous crimes of the imperialist era to make concessions on the history issue. If Caster was following this example he wouldn't be whitewashing history but arguing that not everything Japan did was wrong and that not everything the Allies did was right. There is a lot of validity to that approach, IMO.

Elizabeth said:

If Caster was following this example he wouldn't be whitewashing history but arguing that not everything Japan did was wrong and that not everything the Allies did was right. There is a lot of validity to that approach, IMO.

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He is not the only one who is doing that in Japan and who doesn't bother to follow your advices.

noyhauser said:

Hey Thor
I know that you're a passionate person when it comes to the forum and I can feel how you take issue with some of the postings of others. I can certainly sympathize with some of your views and others reactions to them. However I think it might be best if you really reconsider how you post. You're getting waaaaay too emotionally attached to some of these fights, swearing and calling people out. It doesn't help your argument or add anything to the forum.

I know that this might seem a double standard, but it isn't. I think in the coming weeks and months you'll see a subtle but important shift in how moderation is conducted and what will be acceptable behavior. However your responses are currently not, nor will be tolerated under any circumstances. You can't throw insults at other individuals, swear openly or just hassle everybody who has an opposing view.

I really don't want to say this but I must. The consequence of continuing your posting style is clear; you are very close to a long ban, which may be permanent. And it will happen probably the next time a moderator has to come in to split up a fight between you and another individual.

I'm sorry I had to say this, but please be careful about what you are saying. I Think the best approach is to try to remain emotionally unattached as possible... make your points in as neutral manner as possible and don't get riled up. Its the best way for you to remain on the forums, because your contribution is valuable to me and others.

Noy.

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What is it with being constantly threatened by this forum's moderation team? I mean, I wish this was just a one time thing, but hey! It's not.

Uncle Frank said:

Are you off your meds?? What the hell was all the crap dumped on the new member about? He says he was a fan of a movie star(which there are millions of) and you dump all over him. Bull like that will get you banned again for good if I see it again. You know, it would be OK if sometimes you just sit back and read things here and leave the keyboard alone. Sometimes you try way to hard. Remember the saying "The nail that sticks up, gets pounded down"

Uncle Frank

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I don't really appreciate this current moderation team's constant need to threaten me. I've been banned once already, and that was years ago. Now, if you think banning me will solve your problems, then by all means go ahead. I really don't care enough anymore to argue, so do whatever you want with my goddamn account on this forum. It really isn't worth putting up with nationalistic propaganda, homophobia, and all around close-minded view of the world around us if all I'm gonna get in the end is another ban threat.

I really don't think I've done anything to warrant these two ban threats. I understand that what I said to Peter Pumpkin was wrong. There's no excuse there for what I did, but again I think a ban threat was sorta excessive, and brought on by Uncle Frank relating to him on some level. That's fine with me. But, I need you people to understand something. You cannot force me to be nicer, as I see other more aged members acting the same way, slightly more rude, and I don't see threats of a banning issued against them. Of course I have to repeat that what I said to Peter Pumpkin is an exception to what I'm saying, and that I actually regret that.

Thor

This post reflects why you got the warning you did. I entered into a moderator discussion of multiple complaints about your posting behavior. I volunteered to go and talk with you because I felt for your position. I've argued many of your views, and received some pretty nasty responses. Thus, I understand how its tough to hold strong personal views and remaining faithful to them and I actually thought that I could reason with you. I only added the ban warning because others were advocating for it. My intent was to keep you on the forum because I think your view needs to be represented.

However what you're doing is unacceptable. You swear constantly, insult individuals, personally, and often shun any debate when you claim that you want to. You spent half a thread calling Roland mentally ill and telling him to go seek help in his state's institutions. You called another user a homophobe. In this very thread you called Let's Talk a troll, which was deleted by the moderators. People may hold different views from you but how is it acceptable to call them mentally ill, homophobic or whatnot? Its just crass and doesn't help with actual debate. I find your behavior on here and your response to my message ironic in light of what you've said in this thread.

I'm sorry I approached you to try reason with you. I thought you might have actually responded positively or at least engaged in some discussion, rather than what you've just done. I guess I was wrong.

noyhauser said:

You spent half a thread calling Roland mentally ill and telling him to go seek help in his state's institutions.

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Yes, I did accuse RolandtheHeadless of being mentally ill. His posts were unsubstantiated, and he was speaking out of mere conjecture. No proof could be found to support his claims that she was doing it to humanely put the puppies out of their misery, but he continued posting that nonsense just for the sake of it.

On a side note, two posts does not equal half a thread. You're exaggerating a bit too much, noyhauser. That isn't good at all.

RolandtheHeadless said:

Are you a latent sadist?

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RolandtheHeadless said:

Your morbid fascination with these videos, combined with your abuse of the mentally ill, make me wonder.

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I would say those quotes above qualify as harrassment. Do you feel that the concept of an eye for an eye is the proper way to handle these situations? I call him mentally ill, and it's okay to accuse me of being a sadist?

I couldn't help but ask if he was mentally ill, considering he was avoiding a simple question that I asked him repeatedly. Why else would he ignore the elephant in the room? Here is that question:

Thor said:

She was recorded by a friend or acquaintance that accompanied her to the river. Why was the video even recorded in the first place if she only meant to put them out of misery? Why was she laughing?

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RolandtheHeadless said:

Such as? Those pups hit the water hard enough to be knocked out before they drowned.

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He was ignoring that question, which would have settled our debate quickly. However, he felt he could just ignore that question and babble on about drowning being a humane way to die.

noyhauser said:

You called another user a homophobe.

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Ather said:

What makes it different than incest desires,pedophilia or even bestiality ?

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Yes, in response to this. Is it okay to refer to homosexual people as being no better than incestuous relationships, beastiality, and pedophilia? Do you think that might be offensive to me? He has as much right to speak that trash as I do to call him a homophobe, homophobic, or what have you.

You seem to condone what Ather is saying, and that sort of backwards thinking is what drives people from joining this forum or remaining an active member.

noyhauser said:

I'm sorry I approached you to try reason with you. I thought you might have actually responded positively or at least engaged in some discussion, rather than what you've just done. I guess I was wrong.

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I am responding positively to it, noyhauser. I'm absolutely frustrated with it, and your need to threaten me, but am I not talking this over with you? You can't condemn me for making this public AND do the same yourself. I am trying to work this out with you, noyhauser. You jumped right into your new role and threatened to ban me. That is terribly annoying and offensive to me. I am trying my best to be respectful to you despite all that.

noyhauser said:

My intent was to keep you on the forum because I think your view needs to be represented.

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If you actually feel that my views need to be represented, then it would be wise not to punish me for getting a little emotionally attached when debating them with people who think drowning is a humane way to die, and that homosexual people are no better than goddamn pedophiles.

I do love a good witch hunt/trial!

Thread closed.





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