wa vs ga - why in these examples?

[Yakultcat]

Hi! I'm using the grammar workbook "Bunpou Ga Yowai Anata E". The following questions are about wa vs ga. I understand theoretically when I should differentiate between the two, but the following exercises I did showed that I don't in practise.... Would be grateful if someone could tell me why in these examples it is wa not ga, or ga not wa. The particle in brackets are the ones I'm confused about.

1. PERSON A ｢どの人が山田さんですか。｣ PERSON B ｢あの人（が）山田さんです。 I presumed that as you were answering the question, it would be 'wa', as in emphasis 'Yes that person IS Yamada), Or has person A set the topic/subject and as he's designated Yamada as a subject, I can't designate him as a topic? (Or am I utterly confused, and 'that person' is the topic, and therefore Yamada is the subject no matter what?)

2. 先生（が）来た。 Here I have no idea. I've learnt that I can use 'wa' with a verb instead of 'wo' to emphasis, but I have no idea why ga is used. Surely you would need more context to decide definitively whether 先生 was the topic or subject?

Also if someone could point me in the direction of some threads dealing well with this... I've tried forum search, but apparently the search engine won't recognise 'wa' or 'ga' as too many threads contain those words. Gah!

 

[Toritoribe]

1)
If A asked あの人は誰ですか, the answer is あの人は山田さんです. The emphasis is put on the word preceding が, or following は.

2)
If they are talking about the teacher previously, 先生は来た is used. It's close to "A teacher has come" vs "The teacher has come."


The following threads might be somewhat helpful.
https://jref.com/forum/learning-jap...difference-between-following-sentences-46448/
は, が and を what's the difference between the following sentences? | Japan Forum

 

[Yakultcat]

Thanks! The thread looks really useful! I see a long night of studying ahead of me *sigh*

 

[Andromedashun]

1/ The person they want to inform is the one called Yamada, not his name. Among those person, there is only one who called Yamada and B point out who he is (among those person). This is why が is used.

2/Is there any previous context like sort of ''Who is coming''? (They knew someone will come) Or else は will be used.

 

[Toritoribe]

1)
Even when person A asks あの人は誰ですか or あの人は田中さんですか, there is only one person who is called Yamada among them. Nevertheless, B's answer must be あの人は山田さんです. Your way of understanding the use of が doesn't seem to be able to explain why は is used in these cases, I'm afraid.

2)
When they were talking about if someone other than the teacher came, 先生は来た is used. This は performs as the contrastive marker.

A: ここに用務員さんは来た？
B: ううん。でも先生は来た。

 

[Andromedashun]

OK thanks for explain. I think I'm underestimating the situation.

 

[Yakultcat]

I've gone through the thread, trying to take it on board, and did the second part of the exercise and got it correct - I just want to check my reasoning why is right...

The first shows the picture of the earth from space and 地球（は）まるい - it's wa because the sentence is stressing the world is round?

The second shows the picture of the earth through a window of a spaceship with an alien saying 地球（が）まるいなん知らなかった - it's ga because the alien is stressing that he did know that the world was round?

If the sentence was 地球（が）まるい - would it be translated as the round world?
And if the sentence was 地球（は) 丸いなんて知らなかった It would be that the alien stressing that he didn't know that the world was round?

Or am I wrong and just struck lucky with my reasoning? :?

 

[Toritoribe]

No. The reason why は is used in the first example sentence is because it's an adjective sentence(形容詞文) and expresses a general state of the subject 地球. In the sentence 地球が丸い, the focus is put on 地球 and it means "The round one is the earth (for instance, comparing to Mars's satellite Phobos)". But this is a rare case, since we usually can't think of the situation that the earth is not round. Generally, when が is used in adjective sentences, the sentence expresses the situation at the time(現象文). For instance, 空は青い expresses a general idea that the sky is blue, whereas 空が青い expresses what the writer/speaker is seeing.

As for 地球がまるいなんて知らなかった vs 地球は丸いなんて知らなかった, the latter sentence tends to be interpreted that 地球 is the subject of 知らなかった since は covers the whole sentence, even if it sounds odd. が is usually used in adnominal/attributive clauses.

 

[Glenn]

So does that mean the second sentence doesn't make much sense? I can't imagine a situation where earth would know anything...

 

[Toritoribe]

Yeah, that's why I used "tends to". 地球は知らなかった doesn't make sense in a usual situation, so it would be more common to interprit は is a misuse/typo of が.

 

[Glenn]

Oh, interesting. So the 地球は丸いなんて知らなかった version is mostly non-sensical.

No. The reason why が is used in the first example sentence is because it's an adjective sentence(形容詞文) and expresses a general state of the subject 地球. In the sentence 地球が丸い, the focus is put on 地球 and it means "The round one is the earth (for instance, comparing to Mars's satellite Phobos)".

Ah, wait. Did you mean は here, and not が?

The reason は is used in the first sentence, right? It should be 地球は丸い under normal circumstances. That would make things fall into line much better for me, because I was starting to really get confused.

 

[Toritoribe]

Oh, yes. Sorry. My bad. I meant "The reason why は is used in the first example sentence..."

 

[Andromedashun]

I've read from a grammar book that は and が have something to do with transitive and intransitive clauses, is that right? For example if the verb is 来ます that's transitive and therefore you have to use が?

 

[Toritoribe]

What is the exact explanation?
来る is an intransitive.

 

[Andromedashun]

It's long but, here is where you can read the entire detail:

Amazon.com: Making Sense of Japanese Grammar (Paper) (9780824825836): Zelijko Cipris, Shoko Hamano, Zeljko Cipris: Books

 

[Toritoribe]

What part are you referring to? There seems to be no such explanation.

 

[Andromedashun]

Hm sorry then. Maybe I was misleading が and を. But the book does explain that は marks the subject that was mentioned before like you said in your preceeding posts.

 

[Yakultcat]

I was reading a grammar example (ironically on uses of no) which involved ga - and I wanted to check I understood, as I think it parallels the first examples I gave of あの人が山田さんです。
こちらが狭山さんのお姉さんの千賀子さんです。
This is Chikako, Sayama's older sister.
Here, is ga indicating emphasis is placed on the word proceeding it 'Kochira' like 'anohito' in the first example sentence? To use wa, could I rearrange it to '狭山さんのお姉さんの千賀子はこちらです。This is Sayana's olders sister Chikako.
I presume if the latter is correct, the textbook example would be more natural to say?

 

[Toritoribe]

Indeed こちらが狭山さんのお姉さんの千賀子さんです can be an answer to a question どの人が/どなたが狭山さんのお姉さんですか just like in your first example, but こちらが狭山さんのお姉さんです is more common for the case. こちらが狭山さんのお姉さんの千賀子さんです is more likely an expression when introducing her to the addressee.

Unlike こちらが狭山さんのお姉さんの千賀子さんです, 狭山さんのお姉さんの千賀子さんはこちらです can't be an introduction. It expresses the location where she is to me, like "Sayana's older sister Chikako is here."