Verbing someone doing a verb...

[Angel Valis]

Except that いけません sounds somehow discordant with なくちゃ maybe because it is a more formal ending than です and なくちゃ is primarily conversational. I only know I don't hear it nearly as often as "~~なくちゃ(いけない).

When I learned this, I learned it specifically as ～なくちゃいけません. Does なくちゃ have a more polite form that matches いけません?

 

[Glenn]

～なくては. ちゃ is a contraction of ては. Similarly, じゃ is a contraction of では (although here it would have been nice to keep the spelling ぢゃ to show the derivation...).

 

[Toritoribe]

Then is it safe to assume that どういう has a different nuance or usage than どんな? This was the main reason why I wasn't sure of the meaning of どういう, because I've always seen どんな to be "what kind"...

Roughly, こんな/そんな/あんな is more specific/limited to the topic than こういう/そういう/ああいう. (Both どんな and どういう has a nuance of "every".) Plus, the former can't be used for "どういう意味ですか; what do you mean?" or "そういうことだ; that's how it is", as Glenn-san pointed out.

たんごをもっと習わなくちゃいけませんよ。lol

First of all, 習わなくちゃいけませんね means "I must learn", whereas 習わなくちゃいけませんよ is for "You should learn". Sentence final particles are indeed tough to grasp, aren't they?

 

[Elizabeth]

Roughly, こんな/そんな/あんな is more specific/limited to the topic than こういう/そういう/ああいう. (Both どんな and どういう has a nuance of "every".) Plus, the former can't be used for "どういう意味ですか; what do you mean?" or "そういうことだ; that's how it is", as Glenn-san pointed out.

Oh, you can't say "どんな意味" ? I'm sure I've seen it so just thought it was rather unnatural, but not outlawed or anything .

And I was thinking also about the 習わなくちゃいけませんよ that may have been confused with
the negative "must not" form, like ~~ちゃいけません. That often does carry an よ because the emphasis that the final particle gives is akin to a command or an order.

 

[undrentide]

And I was thinking also about the 習わなくちゃいけませんよ that may have been confused with the negative "must not" form, like ~~ちゃいけません. That often does carry an よ because the emphasis that the final particle gives is akin to a command or an order.

～なくちゃいけない and ～ちゃいけない are quite opposite.
～てはいけない／ちゃいけない is negative, and adding another negation なく（＜ない） makes it double negative = stronger positive.

よ can be used for either positive or negative.

 

[Elizabeth]

～なくちゃいけない and ～ちゃいけない are quite opposite.
～てはいけない／ちゃいけない is negative, and additing another negation なく（＜ない） makes it double negative = stronger positive. ;-)

よ can be used for either positive or negative.

Yeah, I know. I didn't explain very clearly but meant from a beginner's point of view there may be confusion between ~~くちゃいけませんよ which is "You must not" in response to a request that is used in a lot of textbooks and ~~なくちゃいけませんよ which is "You must." Angel clearly didn't mean the latter with 習わなくちゃいけませんよ...)

 

[Toritoribe]

Oh, you can't say "どんな意味" ? I'm sure I've seen it so just thought it was rather unnatural, but not outlawed or anything.

No, どんな意味 can be used for "what meaning?" どんな and どういう are basically interchangeable except for the case I wrote in my previous post.

 

[undrentide]

Yeah, I know. I didn't explain very clearly but meant from a beginner's point of view there may be confusion between ~~くちゃいけませんよ which is "You must not" in response to a request that is used in a lot of textbooks and ~~なくちゃいけませんよ which is "You must." Angel clearly didn't mean the latter with 習わなくちゃいけませんよ...)

I think the confusion OP got came from よ and ね not ちゃいけない part and Toritoribe san's post #28 cleared it up nicely.

First of all, 習わなくちゃいけませんね means "I must learn", whereas 習わなくちゃいけませんよ is for "You should learn". Sentence final particles are indeed tough to grasp, aren't they?

(I added some bold)