Yes…Venn diagram time; who are the most technically advanced nation in the world, one having put men on the moon over 50 years ago? Circle one. Which are the the most warmongering nations in the world? Circle two. Which orange-led nation(s) are in the intersection?In general we assume the more advanced we get the less warlike and less likely to kill to eat we become.
Stephen Hawking was very worried about attracting alien life to our planet. Have you read/seen 'Three Body Problem'?At least all the science fiction movies seem to think so. I may have seen this first here. I don't remember.
I wonder how many people here have actually confronted an animal, had it look you the eye and then killed it? It's very, very hard for a normally-emotioned, moral reasoning person to do.If you've ever seen meat mass production farms, I hope you'd think differently. It is absolutely revolting the conditions animals live in there. It's not the romantic notion of cows roaming the fields or pigs digging through dirt that some food producers tout. I don't mind eating meat, don't get me wrong, but I will not eat anything that isn't organic or that I haven't seen for myself how is raised. Here in Denmark we have strict rules about animal wellfare and organic meat has to meet the strictest criteria for space, access to the outside, room to roam on grass etc. 'Free-range' sounds great but doesn't necessarily mean anything other than access to the outside which could easily be a small, fenced in area with concrete flooring. And don't get me started on chicken farms.. >:-(
I will not mistreat animals to eat meat, is what it basically boils down to. And that's pretty easy to follow if you live in a place like Denmark.
Yes, it's a good one.I've seen that one before but I totally forgot about it. It is hilarious xD
I once heard someone at work tell how he hit an animal (fox or deer, I forget) with his car and it was lying screaming on the side of the road. The body was severely damaged so he hit it over the head to put it out of its misery. For the longest time after, loud, high-pitched sounds would make him hear that scream againI wonder how many people here have actually confronted an animal, had it look you the eye and then killed it? It's very, very hard for a normally-emotioned, moral reasoning person to do.
What was it that changed your point of view, Grandpa Frank?Like many in Maine , hunting and fishing were a big part of my life. My father taught me at a young age , a "real man" is a good shot and kills animals. At around 5 years old I started killing snakes , frogs and small birds with a BB gun. At 7 years old I got a 22 rifle and started killing bigger animals. At 14 , I got a 30-30 rifle to kill deer and bears. My job when ever we were going into hunting camp was to kill partridge and rabbits for a big stew. Finally at 23 when I got out of the Navy and did not care what my dad or his hunting buddies thought , I quit killing animals for good. It's a time in my life that haunts me till the day I die. I worry that when I go to the Rainbow Bridge to see my old pets , I will be met by the hundreds of animals I killed.
<Finger in ears shouting "LA LA LA">I once heard someone at work tell how he hit an animal (fox or deer, I forget) with his car and it was lying screaming on the side of the road. The body was severely damaged so he hit it over the head to put it out of its misery. For the longest time after, loud, high-pitched sounds would make him hear that scream again
I've only ever know one person who hunted deer. I suggested I'd be alright with his proclivity if he levelled the playing field and he hunted with the his just his hands since the deer doesn't have any special natural weapons. He'd grunt like the neanderthal he was.The last deer I shot was a beautiful 8 point buck. Up close it was so beautiful , and my killing it just seemed so pointless. The other odd thing that bothered me was the 12 guys at hunting camp with me treated me like a hero for shooting it in the head at 220 yards away.
You're clearly a cut above the average person, Grandpa FrankTheir joy and excitement over it just made me feel more guilty. I still loved guns and shooting , but from that day on I only shot paper targets. Now at 75 years of age , I find myself with 20 guns and probably about 50,000 rounds of ammo I'll never use again. Arthritis has put an end to my shooting days. I know it's time to sell out , but can't seem to bring myself to do it . Lifetime habits are sure difficult for me.
Technologically advanced yes. But actually advanced, far from it. Now that I think about it, science fiction must be wrong. At least on earth, it was the most warlike societies that triumphed since they were the ones that went out to other lands and killed or enslaved other indiscriminately.Yes…Venn diagram time; who are the most technically advanced nation in the world, one having put men on the moon over 50 years ago? Circle one. Which are the the most warmongering nations in the world? Circle two. Which orange-led nation(s) are in the intersection?
No I haven't heard of that. Given what we know of physics this should be the least of our worries. Unless an alien civilization figures out how to travel at or quicker than the speed of light by the time any aliens get here our civilization will be long extinct.Stephen Hawking was very worried about attracting alien life to our planet. Have you read/seen 'Three Body Problem'?
By that logic, farmers and hunters are not normal emotional/moral reasoning people. I think we're all capable of it. Consider that we all can somehow ignore all the human suffering, let alone animal, going on around us in this world. Those that can't do so really suffer emotionally and even end their own lives.I wonder how many people here have actually confronted an animal, had it look you the eye and then killed it? It's very, very hard for a normally-emotioned, moral reasoning person to do.
I know many deer hunters. And the fact is, there are no natural predators here any more. Without hunting the deer would suffer terribly from disease and starvation. I've never hunted and don't have any interest in it but I don't condemn those who do.I've only ever know one person who hunted deer. I suggested I'd be alright with his proclivity if he levelled the playing field and he hunted with the his just his hands since the deer doesn't have any special natural weapons. He'd grunt like the neanderthal he was.
As a Japanese swordsmanship practitioner, I'm very interested in conflict/war/strategy and my sad, although not unique conclusion is that conflict, killing subjugating and violence are part of human nature and indeed progress our ingenuity and innovation. But just because that's part of our nature, it doesn't mean we have to act upon it. Our neo- and frontal cortex allows us to override these types of base instincts. I'm evolved to catch, kill and consume animals but I have decided not to. Social media is designed to activate neural 'addiction pathways' and suck us into wasting our processing power, time and generate income for the platform, so I have decided not to engage of any of them. I am addicted to Amazon, howeverTechnologically advanced yes. But actually advanced, far from it. Now that I think about it, science fiction must be wrong. At least on earth, it was the most warlike societies that triumphed since they were the ones that went out to other lands and killed or enslaved other indiscriminately.
Yes, he said, "If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans," he said. "We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn't want to meet."No I haven't heard of that. Given what we know of physics this should be the least of our worries. Unless an alien civilization figures out how to travel at or quicker than the speed of light by the time any aliens get here our civilization will be long extinct.
When I see farmers being interviewed on the news (they're usually complaining about something) they indirectly refer to their animals as mere commodities, suggest it is they who 'maintain and preserve' the land (for their profit, yes). Well the land did perfectly well before they arrived. Does that sound normal to you? It's a bit odd, I'd suggest.By that logic, farmers and hunters are not normal emotional/moral reasoning people.
That's true, but we can slightly absolve ourselves by doing a bit in the hope that it will contribute to the greater good.I think we're all capable of it. Consider that we all can somehow ignore all the human suffering, let alone animal, going on around us in this world. Those that can't do so really suffer emotionally and even end their own lives.
Yes, I peer reviewed my 'Stephen Hawkings-PhD-student' friend's lecture on the mathematics of population control and the culling of animals to prevent suffering. I begrudgingly agreed with his thesis, but it is humans that initially set up that abnormal situation by introducing non-native animals into environments with no natural predators, so they could enjoy hunting and killing them. Henry VIII did this with red deer into the New Forest.I know many deer hunters. And the fact is, there are no natural predators here any more. Without hunting the deer would suffer terribly from disease and starvation. I've never hunted and don't have any interest in it but I don't condemn those who do.
Be careful with curry some roux has pork or beef fat in it even if there are no chunks of meat in it.If you're not vegan, I think it's possible to find sustenance.
I think most decent-sized cities have some Indian or Pakistani restaurants. They always have a veg selection.
Also if you go to izakaya there are usually a few selections that can add up to a meal. For example, mixed salad, agedashi-tofu, edamame, cheese pizza, yaki-onigiri, vegetable kushi-yaki, vegetable tempura, potato fry. Also you can eat all veg sushi. Japanese curry shops sometimes offer vegetarian curry. Some of the fast food restaurants -- Freshness Burger, MOS Burger, etc -- offer soy-based burgers.
What do you eat in the UK when you're not preparing your own food?
This is my main worry, dachi, sauces and toppings because most purveyors of food forget about 'unseen' ingredients. I had a vegetable ramen near a shrine somewhere once and I was hungry! It arrived, I had a taste and instantly, something didn't seem quite right…an unfamiliar taste that smelled like a butcher's shop of horrors. I asked my friend what she thought and she sampled it and confirmed there was beef in the dashiBe careful with curry some roux has pork or beef fat in it even if there are no chunks of meat in it.
I don't need to add an emoji to be sarcastic. It was blatantly clear. And you're wrong, by the way. Meat wins in that it's also the highest source of protein. I'm pretty well educated, so i know this.If you want to be obvious you need to add an emoji.
This just shows you're not very well educated. If you actually looked into it you'd probably find that it's much more "stupid" to eat meat than not. And I say that as a meat eater. From just about any standpoint -- ethical, environmental, health -- vegetarian beats meat. Really the only thing meat wins is taste.
I honestly don't care about the conditions that animals live in, because in Genesis 9:3 of the Christian bible, God states that "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." I can watch an animal die in front of me and still eat it, because I have a God given right to do so. Yes, mistreating animals is not okay, but just because they're mistreated doesn't mean I wont eat their meat.If you've ever seen meat mass production farms, I hope you'd think differently. It is absolutely revolting the conditions animals live in there. It's not the romantic notion of cows roaming the fields or pigs digging through dirt that some food producers tout. I don't mind eating meat, don't get me wrong, but I will not eat anything that isn't organic or that I haven't seen for myself how is raised. Here in Denmark we have strict rules about animal wellfare and organic meat has to meet the strictest criteria for space, access to the outside, room to roam on grass etc. 'Free-range' sounds great but doesn't necessarily mean anything other than access to the outside which could easily be a small, fenced in area with concrete flooring. And don't get me started on chicken farms.. >:-(
I will not mistreat animals to eat meat, is what it basically boils down to. And that's pretty easy to follow if you live in a place like Denmark.
You've only addressed one minor aspect of meat. Assuming it's true that it's the highest source of protein that still doesn't address all the other aspects.I don't need to add an emoji to be sarcastic. It was blatantly clear. And you're wrong, by the way. Meat wins in that it's also the highest source of protein. I'm pretty well educated, so i know this.
I honestly don't care about the conditions that animals live in, because in Genesis 9:3 of the Christian bible, God states that "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." I can watch an animal die in front of me and still eat it, because I have a God given right to do so. Yes, mistreating animals is not okay, but just because they're mistreated doesn't mean I wont eat their meat.
Killing animals if you need something from them isn't inhumane.You've only addressed one minor aspect of meat. Assuming it's true that it's the highest source of protein that still doesn't address all the other aspects.
From a biblical perspective, the attitude described in the query reflects a partial understanding of Genesis 9:3 but fails to fully consider broader scriptural teachings on the treatment of animals and ethical consumption.
Biblical Permission to Eat Meat
Genesis 9:3 indeed grants humanity permission to eat animals, stating, "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything"16. This permission marked a shift from the original plant-based diet prescribed in Genesis 1:29. However, this allowance came after the Flood, when vegetation was scarce, and was accompanied by restrictions, such as the prohibition against consuming blood (Genesis 9:4) and later distinctions between clean and unclean animals (Leviticus 11)6.
Ethical Treatment of Animals
While Genesis 9:3 permits meat consumption, it does not endorse cruelty or indifference toward animals. Many Christian theologians emphasize stewardship over creation, which involves treating animals with care and respect. For instance:
Scripture also highlights that God cares for all His creatures (Psalm 145:9), and cruelty toward animals is inconsistent with biblical principles of stewardship and compassion34.
- The Catechism of the Catholic Church calls for avoiding unnecessary suffering to animals and emphasizes humane treatment4.
- Karl Barth argued that killing animals for food should only occur under necessity and must be done with reverence3.
Balancing Biblical Principles
The attitude expressed—indifference to animal suffering while consuming mistreated meat—contradicts broader biblical themes of stewardship and ethical responsibility. While eating meat is permissible, Christians are called to reflect on their choices in light of compassion and respect for creation. This includes supporting practices that reduce animal suffering and promote humane treatment45.
In summary, while Genesis 9:3 allows meat consumption, biblical teachings encourage mindful stewardship that avoids unnecessary harm to animals. Indifference to their conditions conflicts with this ethical responsibility.
Once again you're showing a willful lack of knowledge.The conditions weren't much better than right now... so what we do with animals now isn't as harsh.
Would you eat a steak that was grown in a laboratory? As global population continues to grow, conventional cattle farming is being stretched to its limits. The University of Tokyo professor Shoji Takeuchi, a specialist in biohybrid engineering, cites this as well as climate change, food safety and animal welfare as the reasons for his interest in growing steak meat in a controlled laboratory environment. His breakthrough technique takes a small sample of living cow cells without harming the animal, and produces a thick steak-type meat unlike lab-grown minced meat. In this episode, we look at his past work on mosquito-inspired sensors to detect cancer, his current work on cultivating steak meat, and the forthcoming challenge of public perception.
Yes this is an interesting direction and it'll be a great way of reducing animal suffering and human deaths cause by saturated fats (they can alter the amount of fat present in the tissue). Fewer farm animals will be bred, much reducing their worldwide population and as a consequence, less methane will be produced allowing humans to burn more fossil fuels at dragster races/tractor pulls and flying in aeroplanes (Don't forget real meat meat substitutes are coming too. That is, meat grown in a factory. I think this will be more dominant than the plant-based substitutes.