Translation help

killerinsidee

先輩

14 Dec 2013

277

16

• 28 Apr 2014

• #1

I was checking the meaning of 井の中の蛙 and found this - 井の中の蛙とは - はてなキーワード

In 「狭い世界に閉じこもって、広い世界のあることを知らない」 I'm not really sure about the meaning of 広い世界のあること. Does it mean " (know about) Things that are/exist in a bigger world" or "(know) the existence of a bigger world / be aware that a bigger world exists".

I found a similar phrase here - 世界のあるの英訳｜英辞郎 on the WEB：アルク , but also 面白い日本語と英語の慣用句（イディオム）とことわざ（１７５） - 面白い日本語と英語の慣用句（イディオム）とことわざ (2nd comment もっと広い世界のあること). Don't know the meaning in this case or how to differentiate between those two.

To me it sounds like it could be something similar to a "possessive" or a relative clause where の could be replaced by が. Unless I misunderstood something :/

「世界の + (ある)こと」vs「世界の(が)ある + こと」

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

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• 28 Apr 2014

• #2

It's the subject marker in attributive clause, i.e., が (広い世界があることを知らない) in the example sentence. 世界のあること can mean "a certain thing in the world" depending on the context, though.
e.g.
架空の世界のあることがきっかけで、現実世界に変化が起きた。 (a science-fiction-like situation?)

 

killerinsidee

先輩

14 Dec 2013

277

16

• 28 Apr 2014

• Thread starter
• #3

Thanks as always. So the meaning depends purely on context? Like in these examples 世界のあるの英訳 . Should be the " certain thing in the world" meaning there. Was I correct on what is being modified in those examples (「世界の + (ある)地域」)?

 

Toritoribe

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• 28 Apr 2014

• #4

Yeah, your interpretation is correct, and the meaning depends on the context. Generally, in a phrase "世界のあるnoun", の usually refers to possession and ある means "a certain" when 世界 isn't modified by any adjective/adjectival clause.

広い世界のあること ＝ 広い世界があること
世界のある地域 ≠ 世界がある地域

 

killerinsidee

先輩

14 Dec 2013

277

16

• 28 Apr 2014

• Thread starter
• #5

I see. Sorry to pester you this much, but since you mentioned that "adjective/adjectival clause", there is a clause before it in this example 「軍事的緊張がつねに高い世界のある地域」. So I'm guessing that it can't mean "in some/certain regions of the 軍事的緊張がつねに高い世界", but "軍事的緊張がつねに高い + 世界のある地域" ? 高い clause modifying 地域.

Edit: I'm a bit slow today, that is probably wrong xD. Should be the が thing in this case.

 

Toritoribe

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• 28 Apr 2014

• #6

1)
A fact "世界 (without any adjective/adjectival clause) のあるnoun" can't mean "世界があるnoun" is not equal to "all the adjective/adjectival clause + 世界のあるnoun can be replaced with 世界があるnoun". In fact, 架空の世界のあること is not 架空の世界があること in my example sentence, right? ;-)

2)軍事的緊張がつねに高い doesn't modify 世界. It modifies 地域 or 世界のある地域.

 

killerinsidee

先輩

14 Dec 2013

277

16

• 28 Apr 2014

• Thread starter
• #7

Great, that clears it up. Thanks again from putting up with my nonsense.