The Nick Baker Case

[Susanoo]

I am sure many of you have been following the Nick Baker case, I wonder what are your opinions? I am here because I and several other people who have posted about Nick Baker on a certain other Japan discussion forum have had our posts edited or deleted. This may be a more mature and balanced place?

 

[cicatriz esp]

Yes, it is a shame. But you're dealing with a country where 13 year old ****** are acceptable, but possession of a bud of pot is a felony offense that is actively prosecuted.
Not that there's a bright side per se, but if he'd been caught in this situation in most muslim countries, he'd most likely have gotten non-appealable death.

 

[Tateishi]

Where did you get the idea that 13 year old ***** are acceptable? Somehow I don't think so.

With Nick Baker, I myself find it hard to believe his story sometimes. Who would swap suitcases with someone and go through customs with someone else's bag?? Would you go through customs with someone else's bag?

 

[Kei_Shugojin]

I think Cicatriz just has a problem with Japan in general. He's made other posts carrying this same tagline. (It might explain why he disabled the reputation function).

Anyway, I don't really know what to think of the situation, as I don't have all the facts, except for the fact that he was found with the suitcase, etc. Based solely on that, and no evidence to the contrary (besides his testimony) I'm afraid I'd have to say that he was guilty. This would be if I was a jury member. Until I see the tape and evidence to the fact that someone was passing out suitcases myself, I don't see a reason to make my judgement in the other direction.

And that really isn't a very unbiased website. lol

 

[Susanoo]

With Nick Baker, I myself find it hard to believe his story sometimes. Who would swap suitcases with someone and go through customs with someone else's bag?? Would you go through customs with someone else's bag?

Yes that is unusual you are right. I think the issue, though, is that he should have the right to a proper trial regardless. There were weird circumstances, the fellow he was traveling with was busted in two other countries for tricking people into carrying bags with drugs.

I remember once I was traveling with a filmaker (I was interpreting), anyway, his bag of equipment was way haevy and the airline staff were giving him a hard time. He asked me to check in one of his bags, cos i just had carry on. I refused but it was awkward doing so.

Anyway, there are con men who smuggle out there and we look back and think 'what a fool I was' only if we get caught. That information about his travel companion getting busted later, seems to support his story, right? But the judge refused to admit that as evidence. The judge has a 100% conviction rate, see.

What is the bigger threat to Japan? Is it Nick Baker, who was at worst the low man on a totem pole of smugglers (cops let the main guy go, never got the person the shipment was bound for)? Or is Japan threatened more by a court system that produces 99.9% guilty rate, how many innocents are languishing in jail here. How many have been hung?

And Kei, there are no juries in Japan, and no tape recordings are made of the interrogations. Isn't that the real problem, and not Nick Baker?

 

[Kei_Shugojin]

Well, you do have a point. However, for all I know, in this particular case, he could have just made up his story about the smuggler, using this other person's arrest and conviction as a scapegoat to get out of a bad situation.

The other issues should be dealt with, but at another time. Notice, it's the "Nick Baker issue", and not the "Japan's Justice System issue".

Maybe he would have had a better trial if they did have juries and tape recordings. But that's not for me to decide.

 

[PopCulturePooka]

No it should be dealt with at this time. Guilty or not he NEEDS a fair trial, not the mockery of justice he is recieving now.

 

[Kei_Shugojin]

really? I was under the impression that we were discussing his guilt or lack thereof. Gomen nassai.

 

[Susanoo]

really? I was under the impression that we were discussing his guilt or lack thereof. Gomen nassai.

If you were arrested and facing 15 years in prison would you want your trial held on the internet, people read a couple of posts then declare you 'guilty'? Of course not, you would be right to expect a proper hearing in a proper court.

But the judge in Nick's case has NEVER said the words "not guilty" in more than 10 years on the bench. He finds everyone guilty, and that is basically the court system here. Something is wrong, ja nai?

If Baker's case helps draw awareness and shame Japan into making some changes that would be a step forward in reforming an unjust system.

 

[Tateishi]

I do admit that the Japanese justice system isn't great and that a 99% conviction rate is definitely troubling. I think that the group lobbying for Nick is lobbying for him to have a fair trial and not trying to prove weather he is innocent or quilty. That's the whole issue here is it not?

"I think you should be wary of support groups who promote an agenda by manipulating our willingness to believe that Japanese systems and institutions are inherently unfair." You shouldn't just back the acquital of Nick Baker simply because you dislike the Japanese justice system. Criminals should not go free simply because we don't agree with the justice system.

Nick Baker got caught at the airport with a bag full of 40000 ecstasy tablets, his story is full of holes and it's hard to acquit someone simple on his own testimony. Even his own MP announced publicly, that, after consulting the police, he did not want to help Baker.

 

[GaijinPunch]

But the judge in Nick's case has NEVER said the words "not guilty" in more than 10 years on the bench.

(Reputable) source please? That sounds a bit fishy... to say the least.

What's probably working less in Nick's favor was timing. You used to never hear about drug busts... b/c they ddi't reallly happen. Now, you go through Narita and they spefically name Ecstacy as something you can't bring in. The fact that it costs 200 yen in Europe and 5000 yen in Japan is all to enticing for some people... perhaps Nick Baker as well.

I will agree that I don't have all the facts, but nobody can say that carrying a bag through customs for anyone else is anything less than stupid.

 

[cicatriz esp]

Where did you get the idea that 13 year old ***** are acceptable? Somehow I don't think so.

From the four japanese girlfriends i've had over the years, and also from people on this very forum that live in Japan. They didn't know each other, so i am assuming they weren't all feeding me a line on purpose. It's a fact that while enjokosai is "illegal", nobody does too much about it. Go to Kabuki -cho, you might even see some.

I think Cicatriz just has a problem with Japan in general. He's made other posts carrying this same tagline. (It might explain why he disabled the reputation function).

What a colossal generalization. Is that why i'm studying so hard to learn their language and intend to move there in 2 years? Next time, think before you post something so stupid. But, enough OT stuff.

 

[Kei_Shugojin]

well, I believe I remember you making similar posts talking about how Japan had a lack of moral character (or something along those lines).

And are you sure you aren't just bitter from those 4 past relationships?

By the way, why did you disable the reputation function?


Well, these are all good points. Maybe they should just reform the justice system and re-try him?

 

[Susanoo]

his own MP announced publicly, that, after consulting the police, he did not want to help Baker.

Tateishi, I see you have checked out a story written by a certain man here in Japan. The truth is that six or seven UK MPs and MEPs have signed the petition asking Tony Blair to intervene in the case. The issue has been raised in the UK House of Commons several times and addressed by Baker's own MP as well, so please don't take what you read on that site you quoted as fact. They have a real axe to grind for some reason, they are on an anti-Iris Baker bent.

Also you should know the five Japanese people who were arrested in 1992 in Australia in the famous "Melbourne Incident" and spent ten years in prison there are behind Baker 100% after looking at the case. They signed the petition and their lawyer is on the case pro-bono. So please don't believe the "Iris Baker is anti-Japanese" bull put out by that same site.

Quote:
But the judge in Nick's case has NEVER said the words "not guilty" in more than 10 years on the bench.



(Reputable) source please? That sounds a bit fishy... to say the least.

That is what it says on the support network website. I also found that hard to believe so when I went to a hearing earlier this year I had that fact confirmed by Baker's lawyer (well, maybe a lawyer isn't the most honest person!). But since the conviction rate is 99.99% it seems very possible. I don't know what other source you would want. Can you visit the MoJ website in Japanese and search his record, please? If you want to refute this please provide some information to the contrary.

Anyway you are right it is "fishy." I think that is because the trial actually takes place in an interrogation cell without lawyers or recordings, the courtroom is theatre, the script has already been written when the actors take the stage.

 

[GaijinPunch]

That is what it says on the support network website. I also found that hard to believe so when I went to a hearing earlier this year I had that fact confirmed by Baker's lawyer (well, maybe a lawyer isn't the most honest person!). But since the conviction rate is 99.99% it seems very possible.

Yeah, I actually saw that link later. It just sounds... uh.... too over the top. Someone brought up a point though. Just b/c the guy's been on the bench for 10 years, doesn't mean he's done a lot of cases. One would assume he has, but who knows -- it's a way that anyone (including Nick's lawyers) can draw sympathy.

I guess that lawyer had to get the info from somewhere... maybe I should look for that. If I had the judges name I could probably come up with something though.