The etymology of Nihon and Nippon

EdZiomek · 26 Apr 2010

Folks, the more I research, the more I seem to understand the commonality of all languages, especially ancient languages and naming conventions.

In studying the language of an ancient South American indigenous tribe called the Chibcha, I have come across interesting parallels with the Japanese, Egyptian, Greek, Judaic, and Celtic languages, Gods, and mythologies.

One of the immediate coincidences, commonalities, involves the "Nee" name, which might explain very nicely how the names Nihon and Nippon originated.

Yes, the end result of my newest research pertains to the accepted... "Land of the Rising Sun", and "Land where the sun first rises", and "Origin of the Spirits".

But the direct, explicit meaning is even more interesting, and one of the origins relates I believe to the God "Pan", who was God of fertility, and male spirit, and yes, Male Appendage. The Nee plus the Pan might have a deeper meaning, which you might appreciate.

But before I give away my research "coincidences" and "amateur research conclusions", can anyone give me etymology meanings of the three letters... "Hon"?

Could this be related to the Han dynasty? Is there a character in ancient Japanese mythology called Han or Hon?

The Wikipedia explanation is...
Names of Japan - Wikipedia

Both Nippon and Nihon literally mean "the sun's origin", that is, where the sun originates,[1] and are often translated as the Land of the Rising Sun. This nomenclature comes from Imperial correspondence with the Chinese Sui Dynasty and refers to Japan's eastern position relative to China. Before Nihon came into official use, Japan was known as Wa (倭) or Wakoku (倭国).[2] Wa was a name early China used to refer to an ethnic group living in Japan around the time of the Three Kingdoms Period.

Although the etymological origins of "Wa" remain uncertain, Chinese historical texts recorded an ancient people residing in the Japanese archipelago (perhaps Kyūshū), named something like *ˀWâ or *ˀWər 倭. Carr (1992:9–10) surveys prevalent proposals for Wa's etymology ranging from feasible (transcribing Japanese first-person pronouns waga 我が "my; our" and ware 我 "I; oneself; thou") to shameful (writing Japanese Wa as 倭 implying "dwarf"), and summarizes interpretations for *ˀWâ "Japanese" into variations on two etymologies: "behaviorally 'submissive' or physically 'short'." The first "submissive; obedient" explanation began with the (121 CE) Shuowen Jiezi dictionary. It defines 倭 as shùnmào 順皃 "obedient/submissive/docile appearance", graphically explains the "person; human" radical 亻 with a wěi 委 "bent" phonetic, and quotes the above Shijing poem. "Conceivably, when Chinese first met Japanese," Carr (1992:9) suggests "they transcribed Wa as *ˀWâ 'bent back' signifying 'compliant' bowing/obeisance. Bowing is noted in early historical references to Japan." Examples include "Respect is shown by squatting" (Hou Han Shu, tr. Tsunoda 1951:2), and "they either squat or kneel, with both hands on the ground. This is the way they show respect." (Wei Zhi, tr. Tsunoda 1951:13). Koji Nakayama interprets wēi 逶 "winding" as "very far away" and euphemistically translates Wō 倭 as "separated from the continent." The second etymology of wō 倭 meaning "dwarf, pygmy" has possible cognates in ǎi 矮 "low, short (of stature)", wō 踒 "strain; sprain; bent legs", and wò 臥 "lie down; crouch; sit (animals and birds)". Early Chinese dynastic histories refer to a Zhūrúguó 侏儒國 "pygmy/dwarf country" located south of Japan, associated with possibly Okinawa Island or the Ryukyu Islands. Carr cites the historical precedence of construing Wa as "submissive people" and the "Country of Dwarfs" legend as evidence that the "little people" etymology was a secondary development.

Chinese, Korean, and Japanese scribes regularly wrote Wa or Yamato "Japan" with the Chinese character 倭 until the 8th century, when the Japanese found fault with it due to its offensive connotation, replacing it with 和 "harmony, peace, balance". Retroactively, this character was adopted in Japan to refer to the country itself, often combined with the character 大 (literally meaning "Great"), so as to write the name as Yamato (大和) (Great Wa, in a manner similar to e.g. 大清帝國 Great Qing Empire, 大英帝國 Greater British Empire). However, the pronunciation Yamato cannot be formed from the sounds of its constituent characters; it refers to a place in Japan and is speculated to originally mean "Mountain Gate" (山戸).[3] Such words which use certain kanji to name a certain Japanese word solely for the purpose of representing the word's meaning regardless of the given kanji's on'yomi or kun'yomi, a.k.a. jukujikun, is not uncommon in Japanese. Other original names in Chinese texts include Yamatai country (邪馬台国), where a Queen Himiko lived. When hi no moto, the indigenous Japanese way of saying "sun's origin", was written in kanji, it was given the characters 日本. In time, these characters began to be read using Sino-Japanese readings, first Nippon and later Nihon, although the two names are interchangeable to this day.

Nippon appeared in history only at the end of the 7th century. The Old Book of Tang (舊唐書), one of the Twenty-Four Histories, stated that the Japanese envoy disliked his country's name Woguo (Chinese) (倭國), and changed it to Nippon (Japanese; Mandarin Chinese: Rìběn, Toisan Cantonese: Ngìp Bāwn) (日本), or "Origin of the Sun". Another 8th-century chronicle, True Meaning of Shiji (史記正義), however, states that the Chinese Empress Wu Zetian ordered a Japanese envoy to change the country's name to Nippon. The sun plays an important role in Japanese mythology and religion as the emperor is said to be the direct descendant of the sun goddess Amaterasu and the legitimacy of the ruling house rested on this divine appointment and descent from the chief deity of the predominant Shinto religion. The name of the country reflects this central importance of the sun.

Cipangu described on the 1492 Martin Behaim globe. The English word for Japan came to the West from early trade routes. The early Mandarin Chinese or possibly Wu Chinese word for Japan was recorded by Marco Polo as Cipangu. In modern Toisanese (a language in the Yue Chinese subgroup), 日本 is pronounced as [Ngìp Bāwn, which sounds nearly identical to Nippon. The Malay and Indonesian words Jepang, Jipang, and Jepun were borrowed from non-Mandarin Chinese languages, and this Malay word was encountered by Portuguese traders in ]Malacca in the 16th century. It is thought the Portuguese traders were the first to bring the word to Europe. It was first recorded in English in 1577 spelt Giapan.

In English, the modern official title of the country is simply "Japan", one of the few nation-states to have no "long-form" name. The official Japanese-language name is Nippon-koku or Nihon-koku (日本国), literally "State of Japan".From the Meiji Restoration until the end of World War II, the full title of Japan was the "Empire of Greater Japan" (大日本帝國 Dai Nippon Teikoku). A more poetic rendering of the name of Japan during this period was "Empire of the Sun." The official name of the nation was changed after the adoption of the post-war constitution; the title "State of Japan" is sometimes used as a colloquial modern-day equivalent. As an adjective, the term "Dai-Nippon" remains popular with Japanese governmental, commercial, or social organizations whose reach extend beyond Japan's geographic borders (e.g., Dai Nippon Printing, Dai Nippon Butoku Kai, etc.).

I could appreciate most of this explanation, but I wanted an even earlier explanation than 700 AD.

Like I have mentioned before, I am continuously amazed at how the names of Japan-Shippan-Chipaningo, Nihon-Niantic, and Nippon-Neponsit appear explicitly in the area of Japan and Long Island, and these names must go back several thousand years. There even seems to be a "Pan" artistic reference on the ocean-floor shelf, west of Gorda, California.

Both have virtually identical shapes, and both face the rising sun. I am sure more than a few of you realize where this story may be going, but I now have a plausible research answer to explain everything except the "Han".

I now know what Japan and Nippon most probably mean, but back to the question I am humbly requesting...
Can anyone give me the earliest etymology meanings of the three letters... "Hon"?

Thank you for any serious help.

Chidoriashi · 26 Apr 2010

mahou Kanji Dictionary! 本 / hon

web.archive.org

Umm just one question to you though. I do not see how an earlier explanation of the meaning of 本 (hon) , is relevant to its use in Japan. Kanji originally came from China, as I am sure you know, additionally how is an older explanation of the meaning of hon (if there is one) give you any insight into Japan considering it did not adopt the name 日本 until much later?

And I am pretty sure the character 本 does not have any relation to 漢 other than being one of the many many 漢字 (Kanji/Hanzi) as it relates to that dynasty.

EdZiomek · 26 Apr 2010

keep the thoughts coming, thank you.

Chidioriashi, thanks for your response.

From my point of view, you are giving me clues, while asking good questions.

Consider your choice of words...especially "adopted"

..."additionally how is an older explanation of the meaning of hon (if there is one) give you any insight into Japan considering it did not adopt the name 窶愿ｺ窶怒 until much later?"

So we are in agreement, sort of... the name was "adopted" much later.

And I return the question, adopted from what and where previous?

Your questions are excellent, even in the symbols which I don't understand at all...

Doesn't 窶怒 looke like a male phallic depiction, (which is exactly what I am talking about, by the way, even though I don't know what it means)?

Article of interest to me, based on your question/answer...
What's the difference between Japanese kanji and Chinese hanji?

http://www.buildingcharacters.com/kanji.html

"The term kanji technically refers to Japanese writing, while the term hanzi refers to Chinese writing. However, "kanji" is used generically throughout this site when referring to Chinese character writing for several reasons."

Nihon.
Han dynasty.
Hangook (Korea)
hanji

These significant names have no relation?

Chidoriashi · 26 Apr 2010

I suppose you could imagine 本 to be phallic, however that is not the what comprises the character. One of the meanings of the character not listed in the link I gave is "origin".
The character 木 means tree, when the line at the bottom is added to make 本 you can see how that mark is showing the base of the tree or the "origin".

The character I wrote before 漢 is pronounced "han" in Chinese. this word 漢字 is pronounced "hanzi" in Chinese, but Japanese read it as "kanji". The character 漢 (Han) also refers to the Han Dynasty. The second character 字 means "word" or "letter".. so you can see the actual meaning of the word 漢字 is characters from the Han Dynasty Kanji - Wikipedia.

The difference between 漢字 (Kanji/Hanzi) in Japan and China, is simply that of evolution since the time the characters were brought from China to Japan, and how they have melted into the Japanese language since then.

So, no I do not think those words have any etymological relation.

The pronunciation of 日本 "Nihon".. is altered from the Chinese pronunciation "Riben". Mostly all of the words imported from Chinese to Japanese have undergone a change like this.

JimmySeal · 26 Apr 2010

EdZiomek said:
Nihon.
Han dynasty.
Hangook (Korea)
hanji

Etymology of the "han" in "hangook/hanguk"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Korea said:
Han is a native Korean root for "leader" or "great", as in maripgan ("king", archaic), hanabi ("grandfather", archaic), and Hanbat ("Great Field", archaic name for Daejon). It may be related to the Mongol/Turkic title Khan.
Han was transliterated in Chinese records as ﾅ?ﾃ (한, han), ﾅ?ﾂｲ (간, gan), ﾅ?ﾂｧ (간, gan), ﾅ?ﾂｱ (간, gan), or ﾅ?ﾂｿ (한, han), but is unrelated to the Chinese people and states also called Han (with a different tone.) (See: Transliteration into Chinese characters).

I'm not sure what you mean by "hanji, but if you are referring to "hanzi" or "kanji" (the word for Chinese characters in Chinese and Japanese, respectively), then this is indeed the same Han as in the "Han dynasty." This is common knowledge.

EdZiomek · 26 Apr 2010

Amazing good answers

Thank you both for your wonderful answers, and let me give my 10,000 mile away, amateur research guesswork.

The "nee" of Chibcha means "adult male genital", phallis.

I am going to use a new word for me here, the "connotation" of:
the origin of creation, the "root of the tree", the core of manhood, the essence of maledom, etc. etc.

In medical science terms, I am told that the testosterone levels of the male adult are highest at dawn, when he wakes up. And yes, I can somewhat attest to waking up to a rigid visitor at those early morning moments, at which time I shake the wife and say..."Let's give it a go, while we have a chance!" (I'm on the noble-age side of less performance, 58) Yes, the "rooster" crows at dawn.

In scientific and imagination terms...
So we have high testosterone levels at dawn, we have the male appendage standing at attention with no concious effort by the "host-leader", we have a Greek mythology character called "Pan" who may be the "root of Penis", we have the name Han possibly related to Khan-Cahoona-Cohen-Leader, all happening at the time of the rising Sun at dawn!

Remember the ancient mantra, "As above, so below", to which I add "as within", it is the marriage of the triad of: celestial heavens/father sky, with mother earth, with the human body elements.

So I am proposing that Nihon, Nippon, Japan are certainly meaning "Land of the Rising Sun", but have etymology roots, i.e. the "connotation" in the bodily function of the male testosterone levels.

Connotation

CONNOTATION Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

CONNOTATION definition: See examples of connotation used in a sentence.

www.dictionary.com

"...the associated or secondary meaning of a word or expression in addition to its explicit or primary meaning: A possible connotation of "home" is "a place of warmth, comfort, and affection."

And in conclusion, the shape of Japan, and the shape of Long Island, did not finally take shape until more modern times, with floods overwhelming the habitat lands all around it. But when they adopted their more modern island shapes, they resembled the core, root, essence of manhood, life, and fertility in a most endearing, powerful way.

Nippon, Nihon, Japan; Neponset, Niantic, Shippan, on the Eastern sides of the continents. The root of all life, the origin of all life, the Land of the rising male essence and fertility, the Land of the Rising Sun.

Knee and Ni/Nee..
On the comical side, I think the ancients took advantage of that bony-head portion of the leg to boast of their male essence, "It's my phallus, not my 'knee'". The ancients were comedians too.

Just my humble opinion. Thank you for all your contributions.

AJBryant · 27 Apr 2010

Oy. You know, you really failed in this big time. Early letters from Japan to China used to piss off the Chinese emperors because they were "from the lord of the land where the sun rises to the lord of the land where the sun sets."

It really is just that simple.

As Freud said (and you CLEARLY should know about Freud, he seems to have written so much about you), sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

EdZiomek · 27 Apr 2010

And?

AJ... How does your point??? differ from my theories?

My whole life is failure, AJ, but my problem is that I'm not unhappy. I exceed at receiving humiliation, abuse, insult, which looks a lot like my resume.

Oh, but I do seem to see figures that look like Phallics, 窶怒 . Weird, right?! And shapes that look like the Divine Male, right? And I wonder, why would the ancient inhabitants of Nihon have a name like that?

Humor me again, please, what were the contents of the letters from East to West?
What words and names did they use, or refer me to a website with this information.

You DO have them written down somewhere, don't you?

Thank you.

AJBryant · 27 Apr 2010

Japan in Five Ancient Chinese Chronicles

And, yes. That's my name on the cover.

Japan in Five Ancient Chinese Chronicles

The cultural foundations of Japan are intimately linked to continental Asia. China and Korea in particular helped shape the early Japanese states in many ways, over centuries of immigration and cultural exchange. The introduction of rice agriculture, the Chinese writing system, and the Chinese...

books.google.co.jp

Chidoriashi · 27 Apr 2010

EdZiomek said:
AJ... How does your point??? differ from my theories?
My whole life is failure, AJ, but my problem is that I'm not unhappy. I exceed at receiving humiliation, abuse, insult, which looks a lot like my resume.
Oh, but I do seem to see figures that look like Phallics, 本 . Weird, right?! And shapes that look like the Divine Male, right? And I wonder, why would the ancient inhabitants of Nihon have a name like that?
Humor me again, please, what were the contents of the letters from East to West?
What words and names did they use, or refer me to a website with this information.
You DO have them written down somewhere, don't you?
Thank you.

Umm.. like I said, this character comes from China. It means, book, present, origin etc. You can choose to imagine what it looks like to you all you want, but doing so hold no more water than looking up at clouds and imagining what you see in them. The word "Nihon" is derived from the original Chinese pronunciation of "Riben". Thus since the Chinese pronunciation for 本 is "ben" not "han", the "hon" in "Nihon" has absolutely no relation to the "han" character of the Han Dynasty. In fact the word for "han" 漢 is pronounced "Kan" in the Japanese derivation.

The native Japanese pronunciation that was applied to the character 本 is "moto". "nihon" is based on Chinese, not Japanese. So it does not make sense to draw your conclusions about Japan and "Nee, and Pan" since the word "nihon" is not based in the Japanese language.

Honestly if I had to take a wild guess I would think that 日本 was chosen in some sort of relation to the legend of the sun goddess Amaterasu. Considering the first character in Nihon, as I hope you know, means "sun". Amaterasu - Wikipedia. This is just pure speculation though.

In short, I would suggest you revise your theory, and start studying the Japanese language, or about Chinese characters.

EdZiomek · 27 Apr 2010

ordered the book.

AJ, check Pendant for an order from Stamford CT.

Chido,

So Han can be Kan, or let's suggest, K-han?

The pictograph can be "origin", as in celestial origin Sun, and human origin sperm and egg? As above, so below, as within?

Impossible etymology explanation:
The biggest red flag in the whole historic world, is for anyone to call themselves an expert, and say any one string of letters has only one origin, and only one pronunciation, for all cultures, in all epochs of time.

On the absolutely wonderful side, you are educating me with your angles, but please don't think that you have the sole source for any answer, given the five major languages of China, the 100 sublanguages, the tonal differences and dialects, the vast thousands of years of language diversity, hundreds of tribes, etc. How can you come to one single conclusion, and one single pronunciation?

Let me give one example:
The English letter G is pronounced how many ways?
I suggest dozens, including: Gee-Jee, Way, Wah, Hah, Kah

examples: Golf, Ogygia/Ah-why-ee, Guatemala-Wahteemala, Giraldo-Heraldo, Iguana, etc.

Your comment is so amazing to me...
"Honestly if I had to take a wild guess I would think that 日本 was chosen in some sort of relation to the legend of the sun goddess Amaterasu. Considering the first character in Nihon, as I hope you know, means "sun". Amaterasu - Wikipedia. This is just pure speculation though."

Sun Goddess Amaterasu. A, Maat, Te, RA and Su-Shu. Egyptian equivalent names, and Gods, by the way, related to Place, Truth, God, Sun and Sky.

So I am speculating, and guess what, you are speculating too. I can't prove myself right, and you can't prove me wrong, but you are adding to the educational mix, and I appreciate it.

I'll take up studying the 5 Chinese languages, 100 sublanguages, one Japanese language, Ainu-Okinawan, if you take up Egyptian, Sumerian, Greek, Sanskrit, Hebrew, Celtic, Yiddish, Babylonian, and Chibcha.

How can one single answer be the truth? How can you or I know the truth?

We are just speculating, we are all learning, so let's hold on the insults.

caster51 · 27 Apr 2010

Zifon(jitsufon...) was used until early Edo?
according to Nippo Jisho
I think Hino Moto (日の本）changed to Nihon or Nippon
hon was fon
雅語.. http://sapporo.cool.ne.jp/katagirirei/sonota/gago.html

[ Video removed ] ( last part.. here is hinomot0, ise shrine)

日本（Yamato hinomoto, nihon or nippon)

Was the name of Hinomoto Emish's pride?

˜`‘‚Æ“ú–{

Chidoriashi · 27 Apr 2010

EdZiomek said:
Chido,
So Han can be Kan, or let's suggest, K-han?
The pictograph can be "origin", as in celestial origin Sun, and human origin sperm and egg? As above, so below, as within?

Khan?? I do not see how they could be related in the sense you would like them to be. Just because two words sound similar most certainly does not imply they must be related. There are many characters that have the same or similar pronunciations in Japanese and I imagine there are in Chinese too. It looks the same to you because you are looking at them using romanized letters. That is why I suggest you educate yourself a bit about Chinese characters before drawing conclusions based on how something looks in English.

The first character means sun 日、 the second 本 means many things, origin is just one of the many meanings that have already been explained. In addition to this character meaning origin the Japanese language uses many other characters that have the meaning of origin; ones that are used much more in the sense that you are trying to theorize the name for Japan to be.

EdZiomek said:
The biggest red flag in the whole historic world, is for anyone to call themselves an expert, and say any one string of letters has only one origin, and only one pronunciation, for all cultures, in all epochs of time.

When did I say I was an expert? At best, I would simply say I know much more about the Japanese language and Chinese characters than you do.

On the absolutely wonderful side, you are educating me with your angles, but please don't think that you have the sole source for any answer, given the five major languages of China, the 100 sublanguages, the tonal differences and dialects, the vast thousands of years of language diversity, hundreds of tribes, etc. How can you come to one single conclusion, and one single pronunciation?

How can you? You are grabbing at straws trying to make connections between a few words where there is no evidence of there being a connection. And just by stating that there are so many possibilities, it makes it impossible for you to validate anything that you are claiming. (Not that I agree with you on the idea that any given word cannot be traced back to a single origin.)

EdZiomek said:
Your comment is so amazing to me...
"Honestly if I had to take a wild guess I would think that 日本 was chosen in some sort of relation to the legend of the sun goddess Amaterasu. Considering the first character in Nihon, as I hope you know, means "sun". Amaterasu - Wikipedia. This is just pure speculation though."
Sun Goddess Amaterasu. A, Maat, Te, RA and Su-Shu. Egyptian equivalent names, and Gods, by the way, related to Place, Truth, God, Sun and Sky.
So I am speculating, and guess what, you are speculating too. I can't prove myself right, and you can't prove me wrong, but you are adding to the educational mix, and I appreciate it.

I really do not know much about Egyptian gods, but once again I feel you are seeing and hearing what you want to hear, and to me you kind of sound like this:

"Take Two minus one is one; one one - 11; two minus one is one; one one, and there are nine members on Silverstein's board of directors. That's nine-one-one. Nine-eleven. And take 2 - 1 + 9/11 and you get 12, which leads us all to the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks."

And I do not post this in a mocking sense, or saying you are talking about conspiracy theories or anything, but to illustrate that anybody can try and see what they wanna see, and imagine there to be a connection. Just because words boast similar sounds, does not mean they are connected. Especially considering those names you listed only appear as syllables in the word Amaterasu, and the construction of the word Amaterasu in itself is completely unrelated to most of those gods.

EdZiomek said:
I'll take up studying the 5 Chinese languages, 100 sub languages, one Japanese language, Ainu-Okinawan, if you take up Egyptian, Sumerian, Greek, Sanskrit, Hebrew, Celtic, Yiddish, Babylonian, and Chibcha.
How can one single answer be the truth? How can you or I know the truth?
We are just speculating, we are all learning, so let's hold on the insults

I told you to study because I thought understanding the languages themselves better would keep you from making errors; errors which you cannot see why you are making because you do not understand the languages.

And excuse me, but when did I insult you?

caster51 · 27 Apr 2010

I'll take up studying the 5 Chinese languages, 100 sublanguages, one Japanese language, Ainu-Okinawan, if you take up Egyptian, Sumerian, Greek, Sanskrit, Hebrew, Celtic, Yiddish, Babylonian, and Chibcha.

How can one single answer be the truth? How can you or I know the truth?

the dictionary of ancient japanese and Semitic languages, and comparison
Amazon product ASIN 4877311807
Amazon product ASIN 4877312676

EdZiomek · 28 Apr 2010

More stuff, and thanks

Folks, this is developing into an amazing discussion, emotions and all!?

First off, I obviously can't read the Japanese books, so I can only guess it supports earlier research of Judaic presence in China and Japan.

A curious urban legend that is making the rounds here is the trivia question, of unknown veracity...

What country today is populated with 94% of all Judaic cultural peoples?

China.

I guess that indigenous tribes in the Western areas still have customs that they might not understand, that apparently are Judaic in origin, or so I am told.

Second amazing, most wonderful find, is from the cover of the book I ordered... by Massimo Soumare, translated by Davide Mana, and edited by AJ Bryant, the center symbolic is the most repeated, most prolific single symbol from either the Mashuntucket Pequot Museum in Foxwoods, Connecticut, or the Mohegan Sun casino down the road.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This image, slightly enhanced from the very fuzzy original with four bird heads, the Macaws, the protectors of the Sun, probably representing Mercury around the sun disk, also has some winged design interspersed, and is virtually identical with the symbolics found in Connecticut (possibly the Pequots), and I believe Scotland, with the Picts.

And yes, I believe the Picts were the Pequots. On my next trip, I will photograph the identical images. I feel this is a major, major interesting find based on the book's cover.

Great discussion, let's keep it going.

AJBryant · 28 Apr 2010

I do not see how they could be related in the sense you would like them to be. Just because two words sound similar most certainly does not imply they must be related.

And, really, that should be the end of it.

Man, some of this stuff is veering toward that second-gunman, grassy-knoll shooter–level of whacked out conspiracy theorizing.

I mean... wow. Just.... wow.

EdZiomek · 28 Apr 2010

Most people don't care, either.

AJ... second gunman, conspiracy, etc.

Not criticizing in the least, and as an amateur, non academic tourist observer, what "wow" part are you referring to?

You are in Virginia. Are you familiar with the Roanoke story where Sir Walter Raleigh lands on the beach, plants his flag in the sand, declares the Land for the Queen of England, and some Indians came out of the woods and started talking crude English with him! He wrote a book, his claims were dismissed, and yes, he was eventually beheaded.

Or that the Virginia Indians had the same tatoos as the Picts of Scotland, and men and women warriors fought in the nude like the Scots, and oh yes, fornicated in public. It was just their culture.

The big wow for me is that I believe I can produce a virtually identical emblem, from either the Pequots or Mohican casinos of Connecticut, that matches your book cover of Chinese origin.

By the way, there is a 3 week delivery time on the book, which is also interesting.

Local legends have ancient Chinese artifacts found at the bottom of dredged New Jersey lakes. That's a wow for me if it is true.

Historic legends says that Christopher Columbus's son wrote a book claiming his dad found Chinese on the strange island he found which was Hispaniola, and he told it to the Pope. Chinese artwork and persons were known to Columbus by the results of Marco Polo's expedition of 1215.

Even more distant historical facts tell us that Chinese diplomats reached Rome in the time of Caesar.

There are other written accounts of Huangdi, the Yellow Emperor of 2700 BC making a map of the western hemisphere, calling it the "Hemlock Tree with the 100 mile waist."

He's also the guy who displayed a magnetic needle that pointed North, I have read, and his wife created the silk industry.

Just these last few weeks, History Channel has been running shows on "Aliens", and two stories caught my interest:

That gold trinkets found in Colombia were in the shape of planes, were not shaped like any known insect in the world, were duplicated by West German researchers in larger scale model planes, and they flew on day-one of their tests!

Or that 2000 year old stone cuttings in a location called Puma Punko can only be duplicated today with a diamond cutter, laser-guided lathe.

How arrogant we are as a race of people when we think we know all there is to know about history. Or even better, that most of us think we are smarter, or more advanced than all previous cultures.

I say we comparatively know nothing, absolutely nothing.

For example, 300 miles East of Tokyo... does any of this wow you like it does me?

Some people see something.
Some people see nothing.
Some people see what they want to see.
Most people don't care.

It's all good. All answers are valid.

Meanwhile, let me get you that casino graphic.

Mycernius · 29 Apr 2010

Looks like someone has had an attack of pareidolia to me.
The Juadic claims all come from creotards trying their level best to show that everyone descended from the family of a drunken sailor called Noah. The problem is that none of it holds any water (no pun intended) and is debunked by reputable scienctists time and time again.

undrentide · 29 Apr 2010

Mycernius, thanks to your post, I learnt a new word! (pareidolia)
I'd like to say that your post is the most meaningful and worthwhile in this thread!! ;-)

EdZiomek · 29 Apr 2010

Good!

All opinions are valid.

EdZiomek · 30 Apr 2010

Found the symbol at Mohegan Sun casino website

AJ, the symbol can be viewed on the Mohegan Sun website

https://www.mohegan.nsn.us/resources/connect-with-us/contact

There are many slight derivations, but this basic symbol is repeated even in the carpet designs.

I am contacting Mohegan about the symbolic similarities, if not identicalness.

JimmySeal · 30 Apr 2010

I've just made a shocking discovery! It occurred to me today that the video game Final Fantasy IV contains

a bird

a board (as in "on board a ship)

a beard (notice here yet another bird as well)

and a bard.

Given this, there is little doubt in my mind that these words all share a common ancestry. Could someone tell me more information about FFIV or these words, so that I can further my assumption?

EdZiomek · 30 Apr 2010

Remove this whole thread

Folks, I am finding whole continents, major connectivities between Europe and the Americas, Asia and the Americas, going back probably 60,000 years of organized habitats.

Ignorance and disagreements are fine, silliness is horrifying. Either that previous post gets removed or I ask you nuke this whole thread, reason: No serious interest.

Be a buffoon all you want, but I am gone.

It's been fun.

undrentide · 30 Apr 2010

EdZiomek said:
Folks, I am finding whole continents, major connectivities between Europe and the Americas, Asia and the Americas, going back probably 60,000 years of organized habitats.

I do not think it is anything new:
Continental drift - Wikipedia
Recent African origin of modern humans - Wikipedia

However, just because of this, concluding that everything that look similar has the same origin is not logical. Taking the symbol of "sun" for instance, the sun is a sphere and have flares, so the image people have based on the sun can not be so different. It is not surprising that many people on the different part of earth with different culture happen to come up with symbols that look similar. Stating it as something amazing and special does not sound to be something serious to me.
I do not see much difference from the example JimmySeal posted.

JimmySeal · 30 Apr 2010

EdZiomek said:
Ignorance and disagreements are fine, silliness is horrifying. Either that previous post gets removed or I ask you nuke this whole thread, reason: No serious interest.

Mr. Ziomek, I think my post was one of the less silly posts in this thread.

And if you can't stand a bit of good-natured ribbing (to the point of calling it "horrifying"), I have no idea how you got this far advertising your crazy theories without suffering a BSOD.

The etymology of Nihon and Nippon

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In imagination land

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In imagination land

Tubthumper

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In imagination land

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In imagination land

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先輩

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The Hairy Wookie

Japa'n vagyok

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Tubthumper

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Japa'n vagyok

Tubthumper

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