News The Carlos Ghosn saga

[Deibiddo]

Interesting read.

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News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication

www.ft.com

Can you do us a favour and just paste the key bits to get around the paywall?

 

[Mark of Zorro]

...throws some people to the wolves to keep the wolves happy...and the sheep scared.

Bingo!

First time I've heard Japanese society described as matriarchal rather than patriarchal though. Care to expand on that?

Would not be right to go into more detail here so I started a new thread.

Is Japan patriarchal or matriarchal?

I stated that Japan was matriarchal in another thread about Carlos Ghosn, to wit: Also I see this as part of the matriarchal harmonious society Japan has. Guilt or innocence does not matter much in such a society. You get accused, you just own it and take whatever punishment you get without...

jref.com

 

[SmudgyBuddy]

I read on CNN, and Bloomberg that he declared his income in USD (He paid himself in USD), 3 months after Nissan quietly changed its declaration of earnings policy, and forced executives to declare income solely in Yen. Ghosn said he usually declared his earnings in USD with Renault, Nissan, and other companies for years before this tragedy.

And this is what supposedly what landed him in jail. As opposed to child rapists that are given bail, and psychotic cannibals that walk away without a slap on the wrist.

For a while before the USD Yen fiasco that was claimed, the authorities couldn't release any information, people thought he was just being detained because it was a coup, pretty sure it was both. TBH.

Later, I started hearing stories of lavish spending on paintings, and corporate vacations with his male assistant in chief, and the round table (the same people that accused him). I don't know if these claims were legitimate, or they were just trying to paint him as an embezzling evil foreigner.

He was one of the people responsible for giving the economy a boost, he was regarded as a foreign savior, and look at how they used him up, and threw him away. Sort of like the English teaching industry, it's a bloody parallel.

For months after that, all I saw was the NHK showing gold bars of money, trying to explain why Carlos Ghosn is bad, with a panel of people commenting, and exaggerating their reactions. It's safe to say that if you need to make a panel on the NHK every afternoon explaining what exactly happened, and trying to convince people, there's obviously something fishy going on.

Students of mine were telling Carlos Ghosn is a bad man, and I asked them : Why is he bad? Student: He is criminal! Me: Why? Student : I don't know.

All this situation accomplished was a method to paint a foreigner in a bad light, even though there's no evidence of such.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

I was talking with a class about how foreign influence and assistance has been vital to the success of so many endeavors. Napoleon was not born French, Elon Musk was not born American, Hitler was not born German (not a favorite example for many but still), Arnold Swarzenegger was not born American, Alexander the Great was not born Greek, Christopher Columbus was Italian but working for Spain. Masayoshi Son is second-generation Korean but now a famous Japanese CEO etc.

And also how things like the American space program, though they put an American flag only on every rocket or shuttle, was hugely dependent on German scientists and engineers as well as Poles and Czechoslovokians, and even parts made outside of the U.S.....pretty much the same thing with the Soviet program. And how much longer did it take Japan to get a successful rocket program going it alone?

And then you have Carlos Ghosn who steps in to save Nissan, does so, and then the government and Nissan leadership goes full bore inquisitor to destroy the man...and it does seem the point was to destroy him and for some reason other than his guilt in misusing/stealing funds cause that seems pretty common and going unpunished in all major Japanese companies. So it very much does seem a matter of just getting him because he is a foreigner. And that being the case, the next time Japan or a Japanese company desperately needs a foreigner to come save them, how likely are they to get it now?

And with the rise of China, the greying of the population and the severe labor shortage in certain sectors, and the fact it does seem that Japan is completely out of ideas on how to proceed on those matters and others, Japan needs foreign help now very badly.

 

[Deibiddo]

I've seen Japanese people saying other countries are in a worse situation because there are so many immigrants in Europe etc...
I explained that it's better to have Indian doctors and eastern European nurses as they work and pay tax than have a country full of old people who just take from the system...
S/He said "Well, Japan is in a better situation for now."
I said "Yes, 'for now'!"

 

[Buntaro]

This news report today really surprised me:

"ANKARA, Turkey--A court in Istanbul on Friday accepted an indictment against four pilots, an airline company official and two flight attendants accused of helping former Nissan chairman Carlos Ghosn escape from Japan to Lebanon via Turkey, and set a trial date for July 3.

"...The company employee and four pilots remain in custody while the flight attendants were released after questioning. "

(cont.)

Turkish pilots, others to stand trial over Ghosn escape : The Asahi Shimbun

 

[misternada]

"...The company employee and four pilots remain in custody while the flight attendants were released after questioning. "

Interesting bit:

It notes a 216,000 euro and 66,000 dollar increase in the airline official’s bank accounts between Oct. 16 and Dec. 26, 2019.

That's about 3,000万円, that's not much when you think of the risks for an airline and also how rich Goshn is.
They probably should have asked more ...

 

[Buntaro]

Ex-Nissan boss Ghosn says helping everyone who stood by him

“Former Nissan Motor chairman Carlos Ghosn is helping everyone who stood by him, he said in an interview broadcast on Saturday, though he declined to comment on cases of people accused of helping him flee to Lebanon from Japan.”

(cont.)

Ex-Nissan boss Ghosn says helping everyone who stood by him

Former Nissan Motor chairman Carlos Ghosn is helping everyone who stood by him, he said in an interview broadcast on Saturday, though he declined to comment on cases of people accused of helping him flee to Lebanon from Japan. Ghosn, the ex-chairman of an automaking alliance of Renault SA...

www.yahoo.com

 

[thomas]

How lucky he was to sneak out before the Corona emergency.

 

[dogdays21]

Given the dire social, economic, and political situation Lebanon currently faces, it seems Ghosn has found himself escaping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Interesting that despite everything that happened, he has said that he misses life in Japan. I bet.

 

[thomas]

The first hearing in the case against former Nissan executive Greg Kelly will open on 15 September.

Nissan's Ghosn gone, American Kelly faces Japan trial alone - The Mainichi

TOKYO (AP) -- His boss Carlos Ghosn escaped financial misconduct charges by fleeing the country, but another former Nissan executive is still awaiting

mainichi.jp

Meanwhile, a U.S. court ruled that two Americans who helped Carlos Ghosn escape, can be extradited to Japan:

Judge Rules Two Men Charged With Helping Carlos Ghosn Can Be Extradited To Japan

Former Nissan Motor Chairman Ghosn was arrested in Japan in November 2018 and charged with multiple counts of financial wrongdoing.

www.forbes.com

 

[Buntaro]

Japan should compensate Ghosn for 'arbitrary' detention: UN panel​

"Fugitive auto tycoon Carlos Ghosn's multiple arrests and detentions in Japan before he dramatically fled the country last year were "arbitrary", UN experts have ruled, urging Tokyo to pay him compensation.

"In an opinion dated late last week, the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention concluded that "the process of arresting and detaining Mr. Ghosn four times was fundamentally unfair."

(cont.)

Japan should compensate Ghosn for 'arbitrary' detention: UN panel

Fugitive auto tycoon Carlos Ghosn's multiple arrests and detentions in Japan before he dramatically fled the country last year were "arbitrary", UN experts have ruled, urging Tokyo to pay him compensation.

www.yahoo.com

 

[thomas]

Very interesting! I’m curious to see how the Japanese media and commentators will react. It hasn’t been picked up by the news yet.

 

[Lothor]

Very interesting! I’m curious to see how the Japanese media and commentators will react. It hasn’t been picked up by the news yet.

I predict it won't be reported. Criticism of Japan from international organisations usually isn't.

 

[thomas]

Now the TV news all focus on Abe’s sakura party in 2018 but I reckon they cannot ignore it forever. Sadly, I cannot raise the topic at home as the missus and I disagree on the issue.

Here’s a link to the report:

A_HRC_WGAD_2020_59_Advance_Edited_Version.pdf

www.ohchr.org

 

[Buntaro]

Sadly, I cannot raise the topic at home as the missus and I disagree on the issue.

Can the two of you at least agree to disagree on the subject?

 

[thomas]

Can the two of you at least agree to disagree on the subject?

Yes, tacitly.

While reported by the newspapers, this news hasn't been featured on TV (as far as I can tell). Ignore and sit out.

 

[mdchachi]

Yes, tacitly.

While reported by the newspapers, this news hasn't been featured on TV (as far as I can tell). Ignore and sit out.

Maybe you can just argue about the Japanese justice system in general. Leave Ghosn out of it.

 

[thomas]

Michael and Peter Taylor, two US citizens who helped Carlos Ghosn's escape in 2019, lost their last appeal against extradition to Japan. Their defence team argued that what the Taylors are accused of doing is not illegal in Japan, and they should not be handed over because the Japanese judicial system is both unfair and ruthless.

“It’s our suspicion that we will probably be shipped over there in a matter of days. There is no surprise here what is going to happen. They are clearly going to torture us,” Michael Taylor told WBZ in a phone interview from inside the Norfolk County Correctional Center where he and his son Peter have spent the last nine months.

'They Are Clearly Going To Torture Us,' Father, Son Desperate To Stop Extradition To Japan

A last minute appeal from Michael and Peter Taylor of Harvard to avoid extradition to Japan has been denied by a judge and they are now begging the U.S. government to step in.

boston.cbslocal.com

Meanwhile, Greg Kelly's trial started last September. His verdict and that against several Nissan execs - not including Nissan CEO Saikawa whose knowledge of any financial misconduct couldn't be sufficiently substantiated according to the prosecution - is expected later this year.

Nissan stays in red ink amid pandemic, Japan criminal trial : The Asahi Shimbun

 

[Petaris]

That is interesting. I am a bit surprised that they are getting extradited for this though.

 

[Majestic]

And still, I find it hard to summon up much sympathy for any actor in this drama. Bad behavior from all sides involved, from participants on three (?) continents. No sympathy for Ghosn or his accomplices, and no sympathy for Nissan or its shareholders, and not a lot of sympathy for the Japanese judicial system, or the American, Lebanese, or French treatment of this story. This father and son team...I don't know anything about them, but their claims that what they did (smuggle someone out in a speaker case) was legal in Japan, or their claims that the world knows they will be tortured in Japan (really?) just don't impress me. They were involved in very high-risk behavior, and now they are facing the consequences, and they are trying to play the "but I'm an American!" card.

 

[musicisgood]

So what will happen to all involved now?

 

[Majestic]

Japan will try to extradite Ghosn, and Ghosn will probably be able to avoid it for a while, maybe forever. Japan will try to set up an extradition treaty with Lebanon so that they can get Ghosn out of Lebanon and back to Japan.

This father/son team who apparently helped Ghosn escape look like they will get a trip to Japan courtesy of the US/Japan judicial systems, and then will face trial and perhaps jail in Japan. I don't think they are rich enough, or high-profile enough to generate any interest in their case.

 

[thomas]

The Taylors have arrived in Tokyo today:

An American father and son accused of helping former Nissan Motor Co Ltd Chairman Carlos Ghosn flee Japan while awaiting trial on financial charges were on Monday handed over to Japanese authorities for extradition from the United States, their lawyer said. [...] "This is a sad day for the family, and for all who believe that veterans deserve better treatment from their own country," he said in a statement. The U.S. Justice Department and the U.S. State Department declined to comment.

U.S. extraditing two men charged in Ghosn escape to Japan - lawyer : The Asahi Shimbun

I am not sure if this has already been posted, but Vanity Fair's article on Carlos Ghosn's escape is intriguing. According to Mr Taylor, he hasn't been compensated by Ghosn. Asked why he did it without receiving any downpayment typical in such cases:

De oppresso liber, he answers, quoting the motto of the Special Forces. He was liberating the oppressed.

Exclusive: How Carlos Ghosn Escaped Japan, According to the Ex-Green Beret Who Snuck Him Out

When the auto king fled house arrest, he captivated the world. Now, the guy who helped him is in jail—and never got paid a dime.

www.vanityfair.com

 

[mdchachi]

Wow. Of all the "oppressed" people to stake your future on. D*u*m*b.
Now all they have to do is sit in jail until they plead guilty, get convicted and serve their time. But at least Carlos will be free.