Tanizaki

[karenk]

Hi, I would like to check my understanding of the following passage of the short story 途上 by Tanizaki:

「そうです、私（わたくし）は湯河ですが、………」
湯河はちょっと、その持ち前の好人物らしい狼狽（うろた）え方で小さな眼をパチパチやらせた。

Does it go something like: Perplexed, Yugawa blinked his eyes a little with the good nature which was peculiar to him?

 

[mdchachi]

I think there are many ways to translate this. 狼狽 alone can be "dismay" "confusion" "panic" etc. Maybe something like this:


Yes, I'm Yuga. ........."
In confusion, Yuga's eyes fluttered a little in his usual good-natured way.

 

[karenk]

I think there are many ways to translate this. 狼狽 alone can be "dismay" "confusion" "panic" etc. Maybe something like this:


Yes, I'm Yuga. ........."
In confusion, Yuga's eyes fluttered a little in his usual good-natured way.

Yes, my translation is quite literal, I was trying to make sense of the phrase. I translate into another language. So do you think that my understanding is correct? Thank you!

 

[mdchachi]

Yes, my translation is quite literal, I was trying to make sense of the phrase. I translate into another language. So do you think that my understanding is correct? Thank you!

I think so but wait for somebody more expert than me to comment.

 

[bentenmusume]

The one "issue" (not to suggest it's a major problem, but perhaps worth pointing out) with both of your renditions is that they're treating "perplexed/in confusion" as an independent thought or action entirely separate from the その持ち前の好人物らしい clause.

That is to say, it's 持ち前の好人物らしい狼狽（うろた）え方で, whereas your English sentences would back-translate into Japanese as something like:
湯河はちょっと狼狽（うろた）えて、その持ち前の好人物らしい仕草で小さな眼をパチパチやらせた。
...or the like.

So without attempting a completely natural English translation (it's a bit too early in the morning for that) and just trying to capture the nuance of the source, it's more like:

Yugawa fluttered his small eyes in that sort of flustered way befitting his interhently good nature.
(You could maybe make the beginning "Yugawa paused, and..." to capture the rhythm of the ちょっと if you believe that a slight hesitation is implied, which it might be.)

(edit: Just noticed that it's 小さな眼, so I've revised the English rendition above to reflect that. Whoops!)

 

[bentenmusume]

Let me also add just for the record that 好人物 is similar to お人よし in that while it does mean having a genuinely "good" nature, it also can have an additional nuance of kind of being naive or being too genuine/trusting/naive(?) for one's own good.

 

[karenk]

Let me also add just for the record that 好人物 is similar to お人よし in that while it does mean having a genuinely "good" nature, it also can have an additional nuance of kind of being naive or being too genuine/trusting/naive(?) for one's own good.

Thank you, I really loved your observations!

 

[Toritoribe]

Well, お人よし indeed has a kind of negative nuance like "gullible", but 好人物 doesn't have this nuance.
(This is off-topic; while "gull" (カモメ) means "easy mark" in English, カモ (duck) is used for this meaning in Japanese. Interesting.)

 

[bentenmusume]

Well, お人よし indeed has a kind of negative nuance like "gullible", but 好人物 doesn't have this nuance.

I kind of second-guessed myself on this, too, which is why I didn't mention it in my initial response, but I noticed that at least one monolingual Japanese dictionary gives お人よし as a definition for 好人物, so I thought I'd mention it all the same. My apologies if it was a bit off-track in this case.

And I never explicitly thought about it now, but that's a very interesting comparison with "duck" and "gull". I guess they are birds that exhibit similar traits in a manner of speaking.

 

[karenk]

Hi, since there are English and Japanese speakers on this thread I would like to know your opinions about some issues I'm trying to figure out how to solve on this text. The first one is the use of 紳士, "gentleman", it is used along the text when the narrator mentions this particular man, but I don't know, I saw that it could just mean "man" and it would sound more natural.

ちょうど彼が橋を半分以上渡った時分に、こう云って後ろから声をかけた者があった。湯河は振り返った、―――すると其処（そこ）に、彼には嘗（かつ）て面識のない、しかし風采（ふうさい）の立派な一人の紳士が慇懃（いんぎん）に山高帽を取って礼をしながら、彼の前へ進んで来たのである。

By the way, does 風采の立派な mean that the man has an extravagant/unusual appearance/dresses extravagantly or is it a fixed expression meaning "fine appearance", I saw both possibilities, but I think that the first one is more on point.

And then in this passage the narrator goes:

なに、もう暇なんですから僕の方はいつでも差支（さしつか）えはありません、………」
と、湯河は探偵と聞いてから「わたくし」を「僕」に取り換えて話した。

Since we don't have this distinction between わたくし and 僕 or different ways to say "I", I translated it as (something like): "since he heard the word "detective", he started using a more informal tone".

What do you think? Thank you!

 

[karenk]

Hi! Does anyone know if the use of おやりになる in the passage below is correct? (I understand that the detective is saying that Fudeko had contracted thyphus). When can おやりになる be employed?

で、あの筆子さんの御病身のことに就（つ）いてですが、あの方はチブスをおやりになる前に一度パラチブスをおやりになりましたね、

 

[Toritoribe]

Hi, since there are English and Japanese speakers on this thread I would like to know your opinions about some issues I'm trying to figure out how to solve on this text. The first one is the use of 紳士, "gentleman", it is used along the text when the narrator mentions this particular man, but I don't know, I saw that it could just mean "man" and it would sound more natural.

ちょうど彼が橋を半分以上渡った時分に、こう云って後ろから声をかけた者があった。湯河は振り返った、―――すると其処（そこ）に、彼には嘗（かつ）て面識のない、しかし風采（ふうさい）の立派な一人の紳士が慇懃（いんぎん）に山高帽を取って礼をしながら、彼の前へ進んで来たのである。

By the way, does 風采の立派な mean that the man has an extravagant/unusual appearance/dresses extravagantly or is it a fixed expression meaning "fine appearance", I saw both possibilities, but I think that the first one is more on point.

I imagine a fine appearance man by 風采の立派な一人の紳士.

And then in this passage the narrator goes:

なに、もう暇なんですから僕の方はいつでも差支（さしつか）えはありません、………」
と、湯河は探偵と聞いてから「わたくし」を「僕」に取り換えて話した。

Since we don't have this distinction between わたくし and 僕 or different ways to say "I", I translated it as (something like): "since he heard the word "detective", he started using a more informal tone".

What do you think?

Yes, I think that's a good idea.

Does anyone know if the use of おやりになる in the passage below is correct? (I understand that the detective is saying that Fudeko had contracted thyphus). When can おやりになる be employed?

It's used as an honorific of チフスにかかる.

 

[karenk]

I imagine a fine appearance man by 風采の立派な一人の紳士.

I was not sure about it, the description of his clothes made me think that he was a bit "over the top", but I guess "fine appearance" covers all the possible interpretations.

Yes, I think that's a good idea.

Thank you!

It's used as an honorific of チフスにかかる.

But is it still commonly used? I couldn't find examples on the internet.

 

[Toritoribe]

But is it still commonly used? I couldn't find examples on the internet.

It's not common, but understandable enough.

 

[karenk]

Hi, can I translate the first sentence below as: "Indeed, what you say makes sense, if that was all I've heard."?

なるほど、あなたのおっしゃることは唯(ただ)それだけ伺っていれば理窟(りくつ)が通っています。何処(どこ)にも切り込む隙(すき)がないように聞えます。が、あなたが只今(ただいま)おっしゃらなかった部分のうちに、実は見逃してはならないことがあるのです。

 

[Toritoribe]

The nuance is more likely "if that was only for what you've said."