Takeshi Kitano and 9/11

basuotoko · 16 Oct 2007

I can't believe the son of a ***** did it again. Has anyone seen one of Takeshi Kitano's specials on TV about the 9/11 attacks in New York? I'm so tired of flipping through the channels and finding another one of his imbecile tirades about how the attacks weren't actually done by Saudi Islamic terrorists as all the evidence points to -- oh no -- it was the US government! Those cunning government officials thought they could fool us, but they didn't reckon with the likes of Takeshi "Beat" Kitano and his deep, investigative research which consists of... ripping off YouTube videos.

Now I know that there are many kinds of people on the forum, and I imagine someone will tell me that Kitano is an investigative hero along with Rosie O'donell, but good lord, how does the ***** get to abuse national television to spout this bullshit to millions of people in a "developed country" whenever he wants? I mean, these are very bold statements he's making, and bold statements require bold evidence.

I doubt very much that Japanese people would like to be told that the Aum Shinrikyo attacks were an inside job by the Japanese government, have the victims deaths be trivialized, and be told again and again as Kitano is doing. He's using Japanese television to push his own personal agenda against the US or whatever and the way he comes out at the beginning of every show with his stupid rubber hammer as if the loss of 3,000 innocent lives, American or otherwise, is fitting content for a comedy program makes me absolutely sick.

Why is he allowed to keep doing this? When we will see the TV comedy program about how the Aum Shinrikyo attacks were an inside job? Are Japanese really this insensitive?

scorpion da black · 16 Oct 2007

ok ok..............so he made out a conclusion
as a muslim i feel that it is absurd to see people blame islamists for this........why cant they jsut say terrorists??
why should the word be islamist or islamic terrorists?? they say because they fight in the name of relgion........well i have heard of a lot of terrorist groups who claim to be crusaders........why doesnt the media refer to them as christianists???
or the zionists who killed over three of the million paletenians jewists........???

why should the word islam be used to refer for terrorists??? how come islam as a relgion is blamed for what ever **** terrorists do?? while when a terrorist group fighting for some other faith gets blamed as an individual movement??

how come we dont call the JRA japanists?? and blame japan for having terrorists?

why is the whole religion and its people get blamed for mistakes of a group ??

oh and i can relate to what that show said............maybe it was a scam by the heartless bush to make an execuse for an even more heartless bloody war for OIL

Ewok85 · 16 Oct 2007

The main reason they are not called "christianists" is because such a word doesn't exist

Goldiegirl · 16 Oct 2007

I think the main difference here is that currently Islamic terrorists are around, the crusades were a long time ago and no longer relevant. And, Islamic terrorists attack countries that AREN'T Muslim, or countries that don't want religion to run their countries. I think it is way too easy to NOT blame the religion. We want to be so politically correct and that is killing us. As a woman I think the extremist Muslims are nothing more than chauvinistic men. There will always be conspiracy theories but to say that Islam had nothing to with 9/11 is absurd.

pugtm · 16 Oct 2007

the reason Islamic terrorists is used is because oh my goodness who could have guessed they are all Muslim!!! whenever an attack happens i say to myself, "i bet their names were muhammed muhammed and muhammed" so far ive gotten it right at almost 100%. so yeah people are going to assume something.... not saying this is all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslim...

JimmySeal · 16 Oct 2007

Did Takeshi Kitano actually say the US government caused the attacks or did he merely point out the inconsistencies in the generally accepted explanation of them?

There is a lot of fishy stuff surrounding the destruction of the World Trade Center, and if you don't see that, someone has really pulled the wool over your eyes.
I wouldn't put it past people in the US government to kill 3000 businesspeople and destroy 3 buildings in order to advance their own agendas. It's simply a question of whether or not they could keep enough peope involved quiet about it in order to pull it off.

pugtm · 16 Oct 2007

yeah sure. it must be such a good idea for the united states government to plummet the economy into a huge depression and cause a huge crisis. I'm sure they got lots of browny points for that. The government is not stupid either, just incompetent.

JimmySeal · 16 Oct 2007

Did you not see George Bush's approval ratings shoot through the roof post 9/11? Did you not see him push us into two unjustified wars because the country was paralyzed with fear? Maybe you were sleeping.

And please remind me how the destruction of the World Trade Center caused a depression, because I'm pretty sure the economic problems going on were the result of the end of the dot-com orgy, and GWB's greedy economic policies.

JimmySeal · 16 Oct 2007

pugtm said:
not saying this is all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslim...

Widely known terrorists
Timothy McVeigh
Theodore Kaczynski
Seung-Hui Cho
Blackwater USA
George W. Bush

Mars Man · 16 Oct 2007

I have moved this here since although the very last portion of questioning in the OP put the topic towards 'how Japanese society can do 'this',' the total response was along a different line of concern. I may add my views here later, but have to run now.

Let's do be careful here, however, folks !! MM

basuotoko · 16 Oct 2007

Congratulations, JimmySeal, you have fulfilled my original prediction that someone here would take the baton from "Beat" Takeshi and accuse the US government of killing its own citizens. A proud day at JREF. Has it ever crossed your mind that an inside job against the WTC would take an extraordinary amount of manpower and a payroll like nothing the US government has ever seen. How are they keeping these thousands -- perhaps tens of thousands -- of American citizens quiet? Do you understand how much time and workers it would take to rig the WTC with explosives? Anyone who believes the WTC was artificially brought down by explosives simply hasn't done any research on such matters, or really is just a tin foil idiot.

I'm all for questioning the actions of the US government and any government for that matter. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical of official explanations, but when people just start making **** up that's contrary to all the evidence and expert testimony over something as tragic as 9/11 it pisses me off. And to hear some bloated Japanese ******* say it again and again is only worse.

Mikawa Ossan · 16 Oct 2007

basuotoko said:
Now I know that not all the posters on the forum are particularly intelligent people, and I imagine someone will tell me that Kitano is an investigative hero along with Rosie O'donell, but good lord, how does the ***** get to abuse national television to spout this bullshit to millions of people in a "developed country" whenever he wants?

Why is he allowed to keep doing this? When we will see the TV comedy program about how the Aum Shinrikyo attacks were an inside job? Are Japanese really this insensitive?

It's called freedom of speech. It's guaranteed in Japan's constitution.

JimmySeal · 16 Oct 2007

Y'know, basuotoko, it's hard to take you seriously when you appear as the jubilant androgynous character in your avatar, but I will try to ignore it.

Congratulations to you on not understanding the simple English I was using. I did not accuse the government of killing its own people. I simply said that for a lot of them, there aren't really any moral convictions stopping them from doing a thing like that. And if Mr. Kitano's so-called "accusation" was anything like mine, he didn't accuse the government of anything either.

I asked you a question that you didn't answer. What exactly was said on this TV program? Did Beat Takeshi actually accuse the US government of anything? Did he take credit for producing the segment or investigating the theories? When you storm in here whining about a TV show as though we've all seen it, when in all likelihood almost none of us has, you're the one who comes off sounding like a crazy person.

basuotoko · 16 Oct 2007

No, he didn't accuse the US government, he accused Santa Clause of running his sled into the WTC. What do you think? Just as you did above, he accused the US government. You can't even remember your own writing?

Did you not see George Bush's approval ratings shoot through the roof post 9/11? Did you not see him push us into two unjustified wars because the country was paralyzed with fear? Maybe you were sleeping.

And if you think that government workers would knowingly contrive a plot to kill their fellow citizens in a terrorist attack, you truly are an ass_hole.

Mikawa Ossan, don't play that card. This isn't a matter of free speech -- when I watch television to study my Japanese, I don't like to see shows that belittle Americans and their government. A show like that is insensitive and trivializes all the lives lost on that day, and hence should not be aired. Like I said, I don't think the Japanese public would appreciate a primetime conspiracy show that accused the Japanese government of the Aum Shinrikyo subway attack. It shows a lack of "omoiyari", to say the least.

JimmySeal · 16 Oct 2007

Where in that quotation did I accuse the government of plotting the 9/11 attacks? I was responding to this comment:

yeah sure. it must be such a good idea for the united states government to plummet the economy into a huge depression and cause a huge crisis. I'm sure they got lots of browny points for that.

pugtm was acting like it's preposterous that government members would have anything to gain from the tragedy, when in fact, a lot of them have been gaining hand over fist from it, whether they had anything to do with it or not.
Again, if Kitano's "accusation" was anything like my "accusation," then neither of us accused the government of doing anything on that day. But I will gladly accuse President Bush of milking that tragedy for all it's worth.

A show like that is insensitive and trivializes all the lives lost on that day

George Bush's innumerable invocations of that day to promote his wars, invasive laws, and re-election strategy trivialize the lives lost on that day, and all the lives lost overseas thanks to his policies that the WTC bombing enabled him to enact. The present brood of Republican presidential nominees are busy doing the same. Anything a Japanese comedian can do on his crappy variety show pales in comparison.
There is a lot of fishy stuff surrounding those attacks. Whether these conspiracy theories have any weight or not, I'm glad that somebody's opening up young Japanese people's eyes and breaking them out of the bell jar where they believe America is a wonderful land that has done no wrong since 1945.

JimmySeal · 16 Oct 2007

basuotoko said:
Mikawa Ossan, don't play that card. This isn't a matter of free speech -- when I watch television to study my Japanese, I don't like to see shows that belittle Americans and their government.

Too bad the Patriot Act doesn't extend to Japan. Otherwise we could cart ole' Beat off to Gitmo, eh?

ArmandV · 16 Oct 2007

basuotoko said:
Congratulations, JimmySeal, you have fulfilled my original prediction that someone here would take the baton from "Beat" Takeshi and accuse the US government of killing its own citizens. A proud day at JREF.

Proving once again the old saying:

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

scorpion da black · 17 Oct 2007

Ewok85 said:
The main reason they are not called "christianists" is because such a word doesn't exist

neither does the word islamist exist.....americans made it up to refer to terrorists who dont even represent the true nature of islam....

i mean why should all muslims be blamed for these terrorists?
why cant the people of the world be fair and just say terrorists without refering to their religion as if the reason for doing so is to give islam a bad name

ArmandV · 17 Oct 2007

scorpion da black said:
neither does the word islamist exist.....americans made it up to refer to terrorists who dont even represent the true nature of islam....
i mean why should all muslims be blamed for these terrorists?
why cant the people of the world be fair and just say terrorists without refering to their religion as if the reason for doing so is to give islam a bad name

Maybe because they are using the pretext of Islam to justify their terroristic acts?

scorpion da black · 17 Oct 2007

Goldiegirl said:
I think the main difference here is that currently Islamic terrorists are around, the crusades were a long time ago and no longer relevant. And, Islamic terrorists attack countries that AREN'T Muslim, or countries that don't want religion to run their countries. I think it is way too easy to NOT blame the religion. We want to be so politically correct and that is killing us. As a woman I think the extremist Muslims are nothing more than chauvinistic men. There will always be conspiracy theories but to say that Islam had nothing to with 9/11 is absurd.

so th terrorists who did the job were muslims.......they dont represent the whole religion....dont blame the whole religion for the mistakes of few

i hate it when i am on the defensive....but do i look like a terrorist?

the word islamist isnt appropriate...just use terrorist!

pugtm said:
the reason Islamic terrorists is used is because oh my goodness who could have guessed they are all Muslim!!! whenever an attack happens i say to myself, "i bet their names were muhammed muhammed and muhammed" so far ive gotten it right at almost 100%. so yeah people are going to assume something.... not saying this is all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslim...

the infamuose spanish terrorist group "eta" atrent muslims.....the tamil in srilanka arent muslims, the JRA are japanese

so it is really unfair , prejudgmental and demeaning to say that all terrorists are muslims!

as a matter of fact islamic terrorist attacks ( as you call them ) only increased after the war that bush started...so this war didnt solve anything but made it worse and increased the hate towards the west

scorpion da black · 17 Oct 2007

ArmandV said:
Maybe because they are using the pretext of Islam to justify their terroristic acts?

well spanish "eta" say that they are doing the duties of god on earth...and jesus enlighted them....how come we dont blame their religion ?
spain only blames the group

Mikawa Ossan · 17 Oct 2007

basuotoko said:
Mikawa Ossan, don't play that card. This isn't a matter of free speech -- when I watch television to study my Japanese, I don't like to see shows that belittle Americans and their government. A show like that is insensitive and trivializes all the lives lost on that day, and hence should not be aired. Like I said, I don't think the Japanese public would appreciate a primetime conspiracy show that accused the Japanese government of the Aum Shinrikyo subway attack. It shows a lack of "omoiyari", to say the least.

Actually, yes it is about free speech. There is a reason that the right to free speech is enshrined in the constitution, which is difficult to change.

People often say things that you or others do not want to hear. Believe it or not, but you do the same.

I am not "playing a card". The reason that he is allowed to say such things is that he has the right to do so.

The question is not why he is allowed to say such things, but why the networks choose to air it. The networks can choose what they air and what they don't air.

pugtm · 17 Oct 2007

scorpion da black said:
so th terrorists who did the job were muslims.......they dont represent the whole religion....dont blame the whole religion for the mistakes of few
i hate it when i am on the defensive....but do i look like a terrorist?
the word islamist isnt appropriate...just use terrorist!

the infamuose spanish terrorist group "eta" arent muslims.....the tamil in srilanka arent muslims,

eta calls in ahead of time to tell were they put the bombs and detonates only empty buildings, the tamil are a revolutionary group fighting inside their own country

JimmySeal said:
Too bad the Patriot Act doesn't extend to Japan. Otherwise we could cart ole' Beat off to Gitmo, eh?

look who has no idea how the patriot act works. All it means is that they dont have to have a specific evidence that a plot is going to be carried out. THey stopped an attack on the brooklyn bridge with that law.!!!
and jra is so insignificant i haven't even heard of them before
my point being the clear majority of terrorists are Muslims. And they have a large base of support from a large section of the Muslim community. 50% in indonesia the largest muslim populated country

pugtm · 17 Oct 2007

basuotoko said:
Congratulations, JimmySeal, you have fulfilled my original prediction that someone here would take the baton from "Beat" Takeshi and accuse the US government of killing its own citizens. A proud day at JREF.

that is the cost of calling ourselves civilized.

bakaKanadajin · 17 Oct 2007

basuotoko, it seems that you're willing to immeidately relegate anyone who doesn't disagree with people like Takeshi Kitano (who I admit I have no knowledge of, in fact I've never even HEARD of him before, but, I am acquainted with some of the general 9/11 conspiratorial theories out there) or conversely who doesn't agree with you, to the ranks of idiot, crackpot, ignoramus, and so on. Why so angry?

Do you know why no one has ever suggested that Suntory whiskey is made from sheeps blood? Or why no one ever accused Shinzo Abe of having 6 toes? Because there is ZERO evidence to support a claim like that.

Now, on this topic, why would people be willing to throw themselves to the wolves with theories of conspiracy and corruption when discussing 9/11 and the attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania? It's basically career suicide within media circles to even entertain ideas like this, let alone perform any investigative reporting and attempt to air it on network television. Well it happens because there are a lot of unanswered, pressing questions that were created not only by individuals like this Takeshi guy or any of the others, but by the official reports themselves. There is some evidence available which compels us to question the whole event more closely, even if for no other purpose than to confirm that it WASN'T a conspiracy. Answering these questions would go long way in putting many American's minds to rest, let alone prove any foul play occurred.

Yet these crucial points of contention are glossed over and left unaddressed by the official commission's report. It's like pleading the 5th; instead of taking the route of certainty and addressing the questions being posed and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that no foul play occurred, we're greeted instead with silence or unsatisfactory answers.

I do not subscribe to the theories of any one journalist or drum-beater, I'm not a conspiratorialist. But I have seen lots of their material and watched some of their documentaries, and there are a few issues that are consistently brought up which are not just opinions, but observations validated by many real people involved intimately with 9/11 and that are also based in sound science. I think people just want these things answered properly, that's all. It's not right that this Takeshi guy outright accuse the government of murder or anything, but asking questions isn't wrong. To do so is not so much a struggle to prove the government attacked its own people, it's just a need to get the entire truth. Obviously, the official report didn't satisfy this need for a lot of people.

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