Suicide.

[Haruspex]

Sacrificing oneself is a little different in my opinion. Its not suicide, its taking a risk. Die now, or be forced into a situation where you will probably die as well. Ages ago with no jus bellum and patriarchal slavery around it was obvious that one would rather risk death in battle.

 

[Mars Man]

In some, or perhaps even many cases, it may well be said that some aesthetic, conceptual difference between 'suicide' and 'self-sacrifice' may cause the two to be distinguished. In such cases, I feel I could of course agree with your sentiments.

Looking downwards, nevertheless, we could still reach a certain point where we could likely understand that both are equally a conscious (to whatever degree of mental capacity that may be made in) to allow death to take preference over life. A decision to act out a course which leads to dying.

If a large case study were to be done, I would not be surprized at all, actually, to see that most 'self-sacrifice' situations were those by which the 'greater objective' could be reached by those of the in-group of the one who chose to die for that 'cause.' Dying for the group, for the cause.

In the micro, it would be the same for the single individual's brain state. The individual dies for a 'cause,' for the 'group'--regardless of how unreal that may be externally, the internal state (and the brain has been shown to be capable of tricking itself) is that the act is for the good of the 'group.'

 

[Mycernius]

Having read through this thread I have finally decided to comment on it. I have noticed that the typical terms for suicide have turned up; easy way out, cowardly, running away and selfish. None of these really cover what suicide really is. Sarapva came the closest with post#22.
Essentially suicide is a type of psychosis that someone slips into after a suffering severe depression. Depression itself is normally a neurosis, but when it gets really bad psychosis occurs and the person can become suicidal.
A quick note on the difference between neurosis and psychosis is needed. In the case of a neurosis it is something that the sufferer knows they have and realise that it is illogical to be this way, but circumstances have led them here and they are trying to find a way out of it or just ignoring the problem. For example phobias are a type of neurosis. you know that it is stupid to be afraid of, say, spiders, clowns, even zips, but part of your brain kicks in when yopu are presented with these objects. With a neurosis, though, you can overide it either by therapy, will power, drugs or a combination of all three.
Psychosis is a different matter. To someone who is psychotic the mind sees what it does as perfectly logical. It makes sense to them and then you have to try and force the mind out of this mindset, or treat with strong drugs, as in the case of schiophrenics. It is as if the person has left the world of normal logic and entered into a different world where whatever you say is not going to change them. People who are suicidal are like this. The ey are at the bottom of the well and suddenly the minds switches to psychosis and what you or I would consider wrong, or to scared to do, become right for them.
Someone who is suicidal and truely wishes to end it all will go through all thoughts on the matter and rationalise the act to themselves. Even the actually act will be planned. They go thorough varibles on the best ways, where to do it, how to avoid being stopped. How do I know this? I did a psychology course about 15 years ago and the lecturer had attepted suicide a few years before. She said how it seemed logical to her and how she even came up with the way to do it, crossing off the ones that she thought she knew had a chance of causing her pain or not doing it right and failing. Fortunately for her she didn't factor in her nosey neighbour.
So you can' t really call them selfish because what they think they are doing is for the good of all around them and it is a selfless act they are doing. You can't call them cowards because they have no concept or it and are more likely to see it as more heroic. I also had one man confess to me that he thought those who could commit suicide as braver than he ever would be. For a normal mentally healthy person it would be. Fear of death and all that, but remember a person who is suicidal has gone beyond that fear. The same goes for easy way out and running away. They have already thought about this and suicide is the absolute logical way for them to go. They see it as the best for all around them.

 

[Haruspex]

Well just look at history, when The Sorrows of Young Werther (Goethe) was released there was a wave of suicide all over Europe, but honestly its out of question that all of those people had suicidal tendencies. It was a "trend" to commit suicide, they had a fear of death, yet they did it.

 

[Sarapva]

I see your point, but I simply can't understand it, I mean, I understand that it is the case, i just can't seem to understand it with my subconsciousness... whoa, does this even make sense?
So basically, i try to imagine myself in such a case, but every single time when it comes to ending my life, there is this unbelievable fear, horror, that the effect of my deed can never be turned back.

Mycernius has explained it the way I understand it. A person who is mentally ill is thinking very differently from the way we do when we're healthy. There is a difference in being psychotic and neurotic, though I don't know any statistics about which one is more likely to commit suicide. And of course this doesn't take into account the "trendy" suicides or suicide for honor, etc.

Derfel, just count yourself very lucky if you can't understand it!

 

[scorpion da black]

what sparva and mycernius said is true, and it is scientifically proved.
how ever it isnt the only reason for suicides.
people dont always commit suicides out of mental illness or extreme depression.
it could be a cult, just like that cult that believed suicide is the gate way for the sky and their leader said he comunicated with aliens and he ordered them to commit suicide so they could depart to space.....

so what i am trying to point out is: some times it can be brain washing...unless you also consider brain washing as a brain damage as well.

and about Derfel said about self sacrifice:that is true as well.
self sacrifice is a mean to protect another, a fight for a cause...different from suicide in defenition...but same in act...it is some one taking his own life.

 

[Sarapva]

That's true, scorpian da black - there are suicides from brainwashing. And then killing yourself to save another person (maybe like pushing someone away from a moving car and then getting killed yourself) is completely different from being depressed and purposely killing yourself.

 

[Kinsao]

Mycernius described very well the mental state and differences between neurosis and psychosis. However, someone can be not in a state of psychosis but still tempted to commit suicide and perhaps act on that temptation. Certainly there are some states where it's rational to the person due to mental illness but not in every case.