STILL confused about は and が; example sentences

[blippy]

I've been studying Japanese properly for around a year and despite having done extensive research I remain substantially confused about these things they call 'topic' and 'subject' particles. :? Some things I do understand, and others I do not, and often just when I think I've grasped the meaning of something I find an example that contradicts it and confuses me all over again. Don't know whether I'm lacking in the cerebral capacity or whether this stuff is generally tricky regardless?


These sentences taken from a google search, for example, which deal with (I believe) subordinate clauses. Could someone explain the function of は and が in these instances, in addition to the meaning that they give to the sentence? Furthermore, if this would be at all possible to answer, could the particles be swapped over and if so would this make the sentence grammatically incorrect or simply change the nuance (although I suppose it depends on the sentence itself).


1. あなたが勉強している学習サイトはなんというサイトですか
What is the name of the learning sight from which you study?

2. じしん は わたひ が けっこん して とし に おきました
The earthquake occurred the year I got married

3. すずきさん が すすめて くれた ほん は なん でした か
What was the book that Suzuki recommended?

4. ぼく が でんわ して とき, なつみ は もう いなかった.
When I phoned, Natsumi had already left

5. おとうと が にほん に きたら, にこ に つれて いきたい When my brother comes to Japan, I want to take him to Nikko


My problems understanding は and が are not limited to the example sentences above, but I have to start somewhere, and as forums only permit one question per thread this is where I'm starting. Hope someone can help!

 

[Toritoribe]

minor corrections for typos

2. じしんはわたしがけっこんしたとしにおきました
4. ぼくがでんわしたとき、なつみはもういなかった。
5. おとうとがにほんにきたら、ここ(or maybe 日光[にっこう]?)につれていきたい


#1~3 are all the adjectival clauses, so が is used. As for #4 and #5, since は usually covers the whole sentence, it can't be used when the subject in the subordinate clause is different from the one in the main clause. See the last example sentence below. The subject of いっていた is also おとうと, so は can be used here.

ぼくがでんわしたとき、なつみはもういなかった。

おとうとがにほんにきたら、（わたしは）にっこうにつれていきたい。

おとうとは、にほんにきたら、にっこうにいきたいといっていた。

 

[blippy]

Toritoribe, many thanks for the quick response. It is much appreciated. And thanks for correcting my typos too. I need to start proof read my writing Yes I did mean Nikkou by the way.


I really do not mean to be a pest but might you be able to explain a little more?



With regards 1-3 and は and がin adjectival clauses, I think it's because the grammatical terms in Japanese are somewhat or at least slightly different than in English and have not been properly explained to me (or not explained at all), that I'm experiencing problems. Until now I'd never even heard of adjectival clauses, only subordinate ones.


With regards to #4 and #5, so there are two clauses occurring there, but is one of them a focal point and the other things that relate to the focal point (or am I complicating matters too much here?)? I'm assuming, perhaps erroneously, that は is the focal point of the sentence, but that が is used in the subordinate clause simply to identify it?


As for your own example, are you saying the subject can also be the topic, in which case only は is required? Would using が be incorrect here or would it just change the nuance?
Again, sorry for all the questions.

 

[Toritoribe]

With regards 1-3 and は and が in adjectival clauses, I think it's because the grammatical terms in Japanese are somewhat or at least slightly different than in English and have not been properly explained to me (or not explained at all), that I'm experiencing problems. Until now I'd never even heard of adjectival clauses, only subordinate ones.

1. あなたが勉強している学習サイト
2. わたしがけっこんしたとし
3. すずきさんがすすめてくれたほん


As you can see, the underlined clause is modifying a noun in #1~3. These clauses are called 連体節[れんたいせつ]/連体修飾節[れんたいしゅうしょくせつ] or "the adjectival clause" in Japanese grammar, which is almost equivalent to the relative clause in English grammar, as in your translations. On the other hand, #4, #5 are classified into 連用節[れんようせつ]/連用修飾節[れんようしゅうしょくせつ](the adverbial clause). These 5 clauses all belong under 従属節[じゅうぞくせつ]/従位節[じゅういせつ] or "the subordinate clause".

With regards to #4 and #5, so there are two clauses occurring there, but is one of them a focal point and the other things that relate to the focal point (or am I complicating matters too much here?)? I'm assuming, perhaps erroneously, that は is the focal point of the sentence, but that が is used in the subordinate clause simply to identify it?

No. For instance, you can say as below, the nuance is changed from the original, though.

僕[ぼく]が電話[でんわ]したとき、なつみがいなかった。
弟[おとうと]が日本[にほん]に来[き]たら、私[わたし]が日光に連[つ]れて行[い]きたい。

As for your own example, are you saying the subject can also be the topic, in which case only は is required? Would using が be incorrect here or would it just change the nuance?

The sentence 弟が日本に来たら日光に行きたいと言[い]っていた can be interpreted in two different meanings.

弟が、日本に来たら日光に行きたいと言っていた。
My brother said that he wants to go to Nikkou when he comes to Japan.

弟が日本に来たら、日光に行きたいと（誰[だれ]かが）言っていた.
The person (who is obvious from the context) said that he/she wants to go to Nikkou when his/her brother comes to Japan.

 

[blippy]

Thanks again Toritoribe, I really appreciate your help. Things are beginning to seem clearer now.