Some random questions

[ningen]

I have a few random questions, I hope it's no bother

1. how do you say 'brother' and 'sister' in japanese, if he/she is older than you it would be 'onii-chan' and 'onii-chan', but what if they're younger?

2. How do you say the following family members in japanese?
father, mother, grandpa, grandma

3. there are some words people say after the names (I don't know how they're called), I know a few but I don't know when most of them are used, the few I know are:
-san > ??
-kun > ??
-sensei > after teacher's name
-chan > after the name of someone you think is cute

so when do i need to use -san/-kun?
and are there more of there words being used?

 

[Angel Valis]

Unless I don't know the kanji for the word, I'll list them in this format:
<kanji> <kana> <romaji>

1. It depends:
Your older brother (talking to others) - 兄 あに ani

Your older sister (talking to others) - 姉 あね ane

Someone else's older brother (or yours while talking to family) - お兄さん おにいさん oniisan (chan etc)

Someone else's older sister (or yours while talking to family) - お姉さん おねえさん oneesan (chan etc) (uses a second えe to extend the vowel rather than an いi like most long えe's)

Younger brother - 弟 おとうと otouto (add san for someone else's)

Younger sister - 妹 いもうと imouto (add san for someone else's)

Brothers - 兄弟 きょうだい kyoudai
Sisters - 姉妹 しまい shimai
Brothers and sisters - 兄弟 きょうだい kyoudai (yeah same as just brothers)


2. Once again it depends:
Your father (talking to others) - 父 ちち chichi

Your mother (talking to others) - 母 はは haha

Someone else's father (or yours while talking to family) - お父さん おとうさん otoosan

Someone else's mother (or yours while talking to family) - お母さん おかあさん okaasan

Your grandfather (talking to others) - 祖父 そふ sofu

Your grandmother (talking to others) - 祖母 そぼ sobo

Someone else's grandfather (or yours while talking to family) - おじいさん ojiisan

Someone else's grandmother (or yours while talking to family) - おばあさん obaasan

Family - 家族 かぞく kazoku
Parents - 両親 りょうしん ryoushin
Aunt - おばさん obasan (no long あa or it becomes grandmother)
Uncle - おじさん ojisan (no long いi or it becomes grandfather)


3. Name honorifics:
さん san - standard, like Mr. or Ms./Mrs.. You pretty much always use this unless you're really close with someone.

君 くん kun - also Mr./Ms./Mrs. but more informal, used for friends, or possibly those of a lower status (teachers sometimes use this for their students), this is primarily used for boys. (I think the kanji is right, I've not actually learned it yet, but I've seen it quite a bit.)

ちゃん chan - see kun but mostly for girls and animals.

先生 せんせい sensei - teachers and doctors, really anyone who has some kind of special skill.

様 さま sama - like san but formal, used when talking to someone with higher status than your own.

どの dono - above sama, you probably wouldn't have much reason to use this, but you hear it in anime and manga sometimes attached to the names of nobles and such.

no title - don't call someone without a title unless you are VERY close to them (family, significant other, long time friend etc).

I'm positive there are more, but these are the ones I can think of at the moment.

 

[Glenn]

*whew*

Good job, Angel Valis! One thing I'll add, though: you don't call your younger sibling(s) 弟 or 妹, you call them by their name(s) (can use ちゃん).

By the way, 君 is the correct kanji for くん. And as おまけ: 殿 is the kanji for どの.

Alright, おまけツー: さん was spawned from さま as a colloquialization, and ちゃん is a colloquialization of さん, right down the formality ladder.

 

[Angel Valis]

Thank you for correcting me, I suppose I should have said to use 妹 and 弟 when talking about them (generically) to someone else.

Such as: 「妹が二人います」 「いもうとがふたりいます」 "imouto ga futari imasu" "I have 2 younger sisters"

And also, thank you for the extra information, it makes a lot of sense, right down to why there are no kanji for さん and ちゃん... unless there are and they're obscure.

 

[Glenn]

Well back before the orthographic reform you would occasionally see 様 with the furigana さん, so the kanji is the same. It stopped getting used when they set official readings and got rid of furigana, though (well, I suppose "got rid of" is a bit much. "Stopped using so extensively" is more like it).

 

[Angel Valis]

Well...I suppose that falls under obscure...at least that makes me feel better for making an assumption lol.

I have so much kanji to learn if I'm going to be able to read pre-WWII literature. *sigh*

 

[ningen]

thank you for your replies, I do have to figure out some of the words in your messages, because I don't know the hiragana/katakana/kanji very well yet,but that won't be a big problem

atleast I know your replies are a really good help

 

[Elizabeth]

Unless I don't know the kanji for the word, I'll list them in this format:
<kanji> <kana> <romaji>

1. It depends:
Your older brother (talking to others) - 兄 あに ani

Your older sister (talking to others) - 姉 あね ane

Someone else's older brother (or yours while talking to family) - お兄さん おにいさん oniisan (chan etc)

Someone else's older sister (or yours while talking to family) - お姉さん おねえさん oneesan (chan etc) (uses a second えe to extend the vowel rather than an いi like most long えe's)

Younger brother - 弟 おとうと otouto (add san for someone else's)

Younger sister - 妹 いもうと imouto (add san for someone else's)

Is this what you meant ? Addressing your older sister is also fine by title - oneesan, oneechan / neechan (the humble form for talking to superiors outside the family is ane)

Older brother - oniisan, oniichan / niichan (humble form ani)

 

[Toritoribe]

I have so much kanji to learn if I'm going to be able to read pre-WWII literature. *sigh*

又陸奧の鹽竈の景色を寫したので名高いあの東三條の河 原院に、夜な／＼現はれると云ふ噂のあつた融の左大臣の靈でさへ、大殿樣のお叱りを 受けては、姿を消したのに相違ございますまい。
（地獄變 by 芥川龍之介）

Actually, it's sometimes tough even for native speakers to read such literature without furigana, especially when written in 旧字体.

 

[Glenn]

Here's my attempt at reading it:

また むつの しおかまどの けしきを うつしたので なだかい あの ひがしさんじょうの かわらいんに、よるなよるな あらわれる という うわさの あった ゆうの ひだしだいじんの れいでさえ、おおとのさまの おしかりを うけては、すがたを けしたのに そういございますまい。

And of coure じごくへん by あくたがわ りゅうのすけ.

And the meaning?

"Since [he] had copied the scenery of Mutsu's salt container, even the ghost of the minister of the left, Yuu, who was rumored to appear in the Kawara in (don't know what to do with that one) of East 3rd Ave. would undoubtedly run off after having been scolded by the lord (of the place)."

Not sure who "he" is there. I attempted this without the use of a dictionary or Google or Wikipedia, so I'm sure I'm off in some places.

 

[Toritoribe]

Very close.

また みちのくの しおがまの けしきを うつしたので なだかい あの ひがし さんじょうの かわらのいんに 、よなよな あらわれる という うわさの あった とおるの さだいじんの れいでさえ、おおとのさまの おしかりを うけては、すがたを けしたのに そういございます まい。

As you know, 陸奧 can be read both むつ and みちのく, so むつ is not incorrect. Also, person's names(i.e. とおる) are difficult indeed.

If 河原院 is read かわらいん, it means "the residence (of nobles) named Kawara". But actually the furigana is かわらのいん, so it might mean "the riverside residence."

Just one correction in the interpretation. ので in 写したので名高い is not "because" but 写したの（/こと） で 名高い or "famous as."

 

[Glenn]

Heh, looks like I tripped up in the places I thought I might (all of them, I might add ),
plus one I didn't think I had gotten wrong (かわらのいん). I'm a bit disappointed I didn't catch ひだしだいじん. I wanted that one to be ひだりだいじん, which I'm sure you guessed, but alas, my wrong guess was even wrong. haha I must say I'm a bit impressed how close I came to しおがま, though. I was afraid it may be an 音読み word, and I don't know the 音読み for 竈.

I don't think I've ever heard of ので not being ので, and actually being の＋で. Is that an older, no longer used usage? ことで would have been understandable without any sort of ambiguity, I believe.

Also, to be honest, the only reason I read (and knew the reading, even) 陸奥 as むつ was because I've been watching 龍馬伝 with Chinese subtitles, and there's the 薩摩藩士 (or I guess 脱藩者, to be more precise) whose name is 陸奥 who ends up following 龍馬 (although I'm sure you knew about him already).

[Edit] Just looked up 竈's 音読み: ソウ. I never would have guessed that.

[Edit 2] And it has 4 異体字! 4!

 

[Angel Valis]

Oh my...I only recognize about 11 kanji in that.

Well it's to be expected since I only know somewhere between 250 and 300 of the standard kanji (JPLT Levels 4 and 3 I believe).

 

[Glenn]

That and I doubt you've learned any 旧字体 at this point, and there are a few non-joyo kanji in there.

奧 -> 奥 (but really close)
鹽 -> 塩
竈 -> non-joyo
寫 -> 写
條 -> 条
云 -> non-joyo
噂 -> non-joyo
靈 -> 霊
樣 -> 様 (but really close)
叱 -> non-joyo
變 -> 変
芥 -> non-joyo
龍 -> 竜, although these are fairly interchangeable

 

[Angel Valis]

Very nice, I only know one of those (and only it's newer form): 写.

変 looks vaguely familiar but possibly only because of the 赤 radical, and the top part of 冬.

云 also seems like I've seen it but very likely I'm simply thinking of 会 or 去.

Thanks for the information by the way.

 

[Glenn]

変 -> ヘン、か・わる、か・える means "change" (or "strange")

And I'm pretty sure you've seen 窶ｰ] before.

 

[tristero]

Very basic question on particles

[deleted message. Placed in wrong location. Sorry]

 

[Toritoribe]

I must say I'm a bit impressed how close I came to しおがま

Yeah, I think most of natives, including me, can't read 鹽竈.

I don't think I've ever heard of ので not being ので, and actually being の＋で. Is that an older, no longer used usage? ことで would have been understandable without any sort of ambiguity, I believe.

No, it's commonly used, like ○○がおいしいので有名なお店. ので would sound more colloquial than ことで.

Also, to be honest, the only reason I read (and knew the reading, even) 陸奥 as むつ was because I've been watching 龍馬伝 with Chinese subtitles, and there's the 薩摩藩士 (or I guess 脱藩者, to be more precise) whose name is 陸奥 who ends up following 龍馬 (although I'm sure you knew about him already).

Ah, then he must be 陸奥陽之助, later 陸奥宗光. I haven't watched 龍馬伝, though.

 

[Angel Valis]

変 -> ヘン、か・わる、か・える means "change" (or "strange")

Ahh, yeah, it's actually in my textbook, though I've just glanced over it so far.

And I'm pretty sure you've seen 云 before.

Well....don't I feel dumb lol

 

[Glenn]

No, it's commonly used, like ○○がおいしいので有名なお店. ので would sound more colloquial than ことで.

Oh, so is ○○ので有名だ sort of a set expression, then? Or is this used with things other than 有名?

Ah, then he must be 陸奥陽之助, later 陸奥宗光. I haven't watched 龍馬伝, though.

I'll have to pay more attention to that. A quick look at the Wikipedia preview upon a Google search suggests you're likely right, although they say he's a 紀州藩士. Maybe that'll happen in the upcoming episodes. We're just about to enter 幕末の混乱 (at least where I'm to... I may be a week behind the actual air dates).

 

[Toritoribe]

Oh, so is ○○ので有名だ sort of a set expression, then? Or is this used with things other than 有名?

This で indicates 原因/根拠, so other words would be possible. But, for instance, in "疲れで熱が出た vs 疲れたので熱が出た", 疲れたので means "because." Hmmm....

 

[Glenn]

Yeah...
------------------------------------------------------

 

[Glenn]

h, then he must be 陸奥陽之助, later 陸奥宗光. I haven't watched 龍馬伝, though.

You're right. He's listed in the credits as 陸奥陽之助, played by 平岡祐太 (if you care).

 

[Luca]

hey everyone!
i'm (almost) a complete newbie when it comes to japanese....
i've been practicing japanese on my own by using a text book.
anyways i've got a question and i hope you don't mind me posting it here^^

In the book it says:
"tomodachi to issho ni kaimono ni ikimashita"
meaning: I went shopping with a friend
My question: Why is it "tomodachi TO issho"? I don't understand why that would mean "together with".....

Thanks in advance

 

[AJBryant]

My question: Why is it "tomodachi TO issho"? I don't understand why that would mean "together with".....

The most simplistic answer is "because it does."

That's the way Japanese works.

But if you remember that "to" means "and", you can get a basic grasp of why "tomodachi TO..." means "with my friend."