Serious flaw in the German forum

I could've named this thread "something that is seriously annoying me and should be fixed", but decided for a more decriptive title

Anyway, I just visited the German forum and noticed that the themes there are broken now and I'm stuck (no matter what I select) with the hideous gray default scheme which really causes me nausea
It's practically the same as with the Nihongo forum, where them support is broken as well, which is one reason why I don't visit it - the other being that my Japanese isn't all that great yet, so it doesn't matter that much.
Is it possible to fix that? Perhaps you could fix the Nihongo forum in one go as well? I see no reason why either of these two would have broken theme support, while it works fine in the rest of the forum (and in the German forum as well, until now).

edit: Just took a look at the French forum (which I normally don't visit as my French isn't very good) and found that themes are broken there as well... I don't hope it's a disease that is spreading?

the themes arent broken in these forums, they are locked into the default theme. for encoding reasons in the nihongo forum. as for the others if you would notice the text on the buttons; new thread, reply, edit and quote are written in the repsective language of the forum.

jeisan said:

the themes arent broken in these forums, they are locked into the default theme. for encoding reasons in the nihongo forum. as for the others if you would notice the text on the buttons; new thread, reply, edit and quote are written in the repsective language of the forum.

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I don't see any good reason at all for having them locked :?
Japanese works very well outside the Nihongo forum:
日本語テスト・一・二・三。。。 (see also my sig, or some guys with kanji/kana in their user names)
so there's really no need for a special encoding to fix something that isn't broken in the first place :haihai:
As for the other forums: ok, having buttons in the respective language is a nice touch, but not neccessary at all. If someone registers at an English forum, he can be expected to know at least as much English to figure out what the buttons say.
Besides that, it's really not nice at all to force these buttons (and thus the associated ugly default theme) upon everyone, if they want it or not. You should rather make these buttons into separate themes so they can be chosen by those who want them. This would also have the positive side effect that they would be able to use these buttons in all forums and not just the language specific ones. Those who don't want them can then go with the theme they prefer instead, rather than having a theme forced upon them they don't like.

Lina Inverse said:

As for the other forums: ok, having buttons in the respective language is a nice touch, but not neccessary at all. If someone registers at an English forum, he can be expected to know at least as much English to figure out what the buttons say.

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Sometimes, it's just that little touch of familiarity that lets people keep visiting a place.

Besides that, it's really not nice at all to force these buttons (and thus the associated ugly default theme) upon everyone, if they want it or not. You should rather make these buttons into separate themes so they can be chosen by those who want them.

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To come back to your argument above, all this adaptability of design is "not necessary". It's just for the user's convenience/feeling.

Actually, I'm not much interested in outer appearance & always went with the standard designs. Just for this thread I tried this Orange - DE style & I noticed that I get the German buttons all over the forum then. I don't know the details of the programming, but it seems the buttons are inherent parts of any particular design. To make them independently changeable might be a lot of (probably unnecessary) work.

My guess is, that when Thomas et al. have the time, they'll probably come up with more themes to everybody's convenience. Just give them time!
I suppose we are here for discussion & information in the 1st place, anyway.

We are currently experimenting with a language modification, that will change the templates/layout of the language subsections which means that the styles in these sections are set by default. The buttons are not final yet.

As an admin/techie I am quite reluctant to offer ANY variety of styles as I prefer our site to be streamlined in order to reflect a "JREF feeling" or "corporate identity".

The current selection of styles is just a compromise to various opinions on this subject.

Anyhow, thanks for your concern, Lina.

bossel said:

Actually, I'm not much interested in outer appearance & always went with the standard designs. Just for this thread I tried this Orange - DE style & I noticed that I get the German buttons all over the forum then. I don't know the details of the programming, but it seems the buttons are inherent parts of any particular design. To make them independently changeable might be a lot of (probably unnecessary) work.

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Making them wok indepently wasn't what I meant anyway. I just meant that they should be made into themes, which apparently has already been done, and they're avaiable outside of the language forum as well.
So, as they're already avaiable as themes, I see even much less of a reason to have them locked in the language forums ☝
Thomas, you talked about a "language mod", but I really don't see what it should be good for? You can already select the German/Japanese/French buttons as independent themes, and Japanese text works fine even without in the forums outside the Nihongo forum, so I'd say it pretty much outlived it usefulness and now does more harm (locked) than good
Besides that, I really don't think you reach "corporate identity" by forcing the users to use a certain scheme without alternatives...
It's certainly ok to have it as default setting, but it would be nice if those who don't like it could switch to a different theme. Being forced to use a certain scheme will rather drive away potential interests who don't like it, and I seriously doubt that is what you want to achieve.
Ok, now you can say "the content counts", but you need some time to assess the content of the site. Now if you're forced to use a certain scheme that you don't like, you're most likely not willing to invest this time and rather look for another site which has a design that is more pleasing in your eyes.
Always keep in mind, you want as much people as possible to visit your site, and as such it is in your best interest to do anything to make the site as inviting as possible so that the people enjoy the stay and return gladly to your site.

dude you complain about colors way too much. they are just colors.
this forum did fine for years with only default colors and no ability whatsoever for a normal user to change it. this new color scheme thing is an added option, a bonus, a privilege not a right. so just be happy that you can have a forum that suits your tastes most of the time instead of whining and crying about how you dont get your way in a couple forums, mostly ones you dont even go into in the first place.

Lina Inverse said:

Thomas, you talked about a "language mod", but I really don't see what it should be good for? You can already select the German/Japanese/French buttons as independent themes, and Japanese text works fine even without in the forums outside the Nihongo forum, so I'd say it pretty much outlived it usefulness and now does more harm (locked) than good

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We consider the language mod a valuable addition for our language fora, in particular in regard to users who are not able to read/write/communicate in English. Such users will be able to register and access the User CP in their respective language. I am thinking of Japanese (and perhaps in future, Chinese & Korean) users. I am currently using the German forum as a testbed for this add-on.

Lina Inverse said:

Besides that, I really don't think you reach "corporate identity" by forcing the users to use a certain scheme without alternatives...

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With all due respect, the creation of a corporate identity touches upon issues that are solely in the scope of the JREF maintainers. We are not imposing anything onto our users and are always open to suggestions and ideas. However, users return largely due to content, service and atmosphere, definitely not because of colour schemes and other "cutities". The most successful online fora are astonishingly plain and even disallow visual knickknack such as avatars, smilies, etc.

Lina Inverse said:

It's certainly ok to have it as default setting, but it would be nice if those who don't like it could switch to a different theme. Being forced to use a certain scheme will rather drive away potential interests who don't like it, and I seriously doubt that is what you want to achieve.

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John Doe googles for "japanese girls" and winds up with 398 related threads at the JREF forum. He doesn't care about design, colours, cute smilies, he wants results. And fast. This is how the average user ends up joining the forum. If potential sign-ups leave because of design, I humbly suggest they rather register at one of the zillions of spiced-up anime fora.

Lina Inverse said:

Now if you're forced to use a certain scheme that you don't like, you're most likely not willing to invest this time and rather look for another site which has a design that is more pleasing in your eyes.

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Please share this insight with Google, Yahoo, Amazon, etc. Would you refrain from buying a book you are interested in just because you don't like the design of its cover? Never happened to me.

Lina Inverse said:

Always keep in mind, you want as much people as possible to visit your site, and as such it is in your best interest to do anything to make the site as inviting as possible so that the people enjoy the stay and return gladly to your site.

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As I have stated before, I am very grateful for your feedback. Also, I am very fond of the style you provided.

Please forgive me my initial sarcasm, but there is more to consider: more styles mean more work when updating the forum. From an admin's point of view this is a major headache. Consider that the forum is just one module we are running at JREF, so it is also a matter of time and effort we have to invest.

*points at thomas*
i'll put a vote behind that
*goes back to sleep*