Sentence analysis

letianchen · 19 Jul 2013

オマエだって周りにばかにされんのイヤでこっち来たんじゃねーの？

Story so far is the a person asking another person Why he is always sad, and why he is hiding stuff from other people rather than saying his true feelings. The guy says it's not something that he wants to share with everyone, then says this sentence.
I'm getting the feeling of

"Dont tell me you too,came here like an idiot with something like that in mind?"

However what is iya, and saren doing.
Saren could be a name, but I can't remember if there was someone named saren. Not sure what that is. Some sentence translation would be mice.

Toritoribe · 19 Jul 2013

お前だって周りにばかにされるの（が）嫌でこっち（に）来たんじゃないの（か）？

letianchen · 20 Jul 2013

Toritoribe said:
お前だって周りにばかにされるの（が）嫌でこっち（に）来たんじゃないの（か）？

That's not how it was in the book perhaps its just an accent? I quoted it right/ BTW is my translate nice?

Also here is another sentence I am having trouble with

カモられるか喧嘩するかそれ以外にねえのかよ

カモられる= what in english?

Also the translation is "If you're not being victimized, you're picking fights."

Where do they get victimized from

Toritoribe · 20 Jul 2013

letianchen said:
That's not how it was in the book perhaps its just an accent? I quoted it right/ BTW is my translate nice?

I just rewrote it in standard Japanese so that you can understand the meaning. (Thus, the answer is no. Your translation is wrong.)

letianchen said:
Also here is another sentence I am having trouble with

カモられるか喧嘩するかそれ以外にねえのかよ

カモられる= what in english?

Also the translation is "If you're not being victimized, you're picking fights."

Where do they get victimized from

カモる and its passive form カモられる is a slangy expression of カモにする and カモにされる/カモになる, respectively.

かも【鴨】
II 〔だまされやすい人〕((口)) a ******; a dupe

彼らはバーでかもを探していた
They were looking for an easy mark at the bar.

鴨になる
彼は詐欺師のいいかもになった
He fell an easy victim [prey] to the swindler.

窶堋ｩ窶堙?ﾂ【ﾅ?窶ｺﾂ】窶堙娯?ｰpﾅ津ｪﾂ・窶ｰp窶禿ｳ - ﾋ彗窶ｰpﾅｽﾂｫﾂ鞘? - gooﾅｽﾂｫﾂ鞘?麓/url]

letianchen · 20 Jul 2013

Ah thanks for the link on the second sentence. I understand it know. First sentence is still unclear. Can you give an english meaning? Particularly on the 周りにばかにされる part

Toritoribe · 20 Jul 2013

周りにばかにされる
to be ridiculed by people around you

letianchen · 20 Jul 2013

Is it giving the impression, you too did not come here to be ridiculed by others?

Toritoribe · 20 Jul 2013

No. The speaker's impression is that the addressee came here(= 来た) since he hates(= 嫌) being ridiculed by people around him.

letianchen · 20 Jul 2013

Oh ok I see where I made my mistake

also それ以外にねえのかよ ( in the previous sentence, forgot to ask). The nee no ka , does what. Since igai means "except/with the exception of" it seems odd.

Another question about igai

デスノートの所有者以外でも。顔と名前の認識を持って名前を書き込めば所有者が使うときと同じ効果がある

Official Book translation

"Even if you do not actually posses the death note, the effect will be the same if you can recognize the person and his/her name to place in the blank"

I have a similar translation but is the first sentence not supposed to be "Anyone but the owner of the death note" . isnt that what igai is doing. There translation implies that everyone including the owner. But I thought it would be everyone BUT the owner.

Toritoribe · 21 Jul 2013

letianchen said:
Oh ok I see where I made my mistake

also それ以外にねえのかよ ( in the previous sentence, forgot to ask). The nee no ka , does what. Since igai means "except/with the exception of" it seems odd.

それ以外にないのか？

それ refers to カモられるか喧嘩するか.

letianchen said:
Another question about igai

デスノートの所有者以外でも。顔と名前の認識を持って名前を書き込めば所有者が使うときと同じ効果がある

Official Book translation

"Even if you do not actually posses the death note, the effect will be the same if you can recognize the person and his/her name to place in the blank"

I have a similar translation but is the first sentence not supposed to be "Anyone but the owner of the death note" . isnt that what igai is doing. There translation implies that everyone including the owner. But I thought it would be everyone BUT the owner.

デスノートの所有者以外でも、
It's not a sentence but a clause.

The official translation is correct, of course. You need to recognize the difference between 所有者以外が / は and 所有者以外でも.

letianchen · 21 Jul 2013

Thanks for reply, Sorry for the mistake of sentence and clause. I never really studied english grammar too much, given it was my first language so I often take those words for granted despite their differences.

Yeah I figured mine was wrong, just couldn't find out how.

So igai demo, is another way of saying Others, including, the subject itself( In this case the owner )?

Toritoribe · 21 Jul 2013

でも means "too/also". "Others except the owner, too," refers to "both others and the owner", i.e., "everyone" even in English?;-)

letianchen · 21 Jul 2013

ohgawd. GG.

Thanks!

letianchen · 22 Jul 2013

Heres another sentence

青春をおう歌せし者達は
常に自己と周囲を欺き

What is おう歌せし者達 exactly? Just looking at the kanji I can take a guess at the translation

"People who brag about youth are fooling themselves and the environment around them"

Toritoribe · 22 Jul 2013

謳歌(= おう歌)する means more likely "to enjoy".

せ in 謳歌せし者達 is the imperfective form (未然形) of す which is equivalent to する in Modern Japanese, and し is the attributive form of a classical auxiliary verb for past tense き. You can think it as 謳歌した者達.

周囲 refers to 周囲の人々 "people around them".

Those who enjoyed their youth always deceive themselves and people around them,,,

letianchen · 22 Jul 2013

Wow you had a spot on translation, when I looked at an english version later. Thanks for telling me that verb I couldn't find it for some reason .
If you don't mind I need help analyzing two more sentences

ブラウンさんと私だってスキーしたいんだよ！でもするというも私っ妹とちがうんだ
I believe I heard this properly. What exactly is the nuance and meaning of "demo suru to iu"

友達じゃダメかな
Does this not mean "Being friends is no good" , but why does the situation give the impression of "Let's stay friends" rather then not being friends at all?

Toritoribe · 23 Jul 2013

letianchen said:
ブラウンさんと私だってスキーしたいんだよ！でもするというも私っ妹とちがうんだ
I believe I heard this properly. What exactly is the nuance and meaning of "demo suru to iu"

The second sentence でもするというも私っ妹とちがうんだ doesn't make sense.

letianchen said:
友達じゃダメかな
Does this not mean "Being friends is no good" , but why does the situation give the impression of "Let's stay friends" rather then not being friends at all?

As you might know, じゃ is a colloquial form of では. The speaker is asking not 友達がダメ but "Can't we just be friends?" This expression is often used to decline the addressee's proposal, thus, s/he is actually saying "I don't want to be your lover. Instead, just to be a friend is OK."

letianchen · 24 Jul 2013

Thanks I understand now!

Here is another sentence I read from a novel I am slowly going through, if you can tell me if my understanding is correct.

みんな。。。もう、俺から言うことはたった一つだ！勝とうぜ！
Everyone.... Soon, There will be only one thing I will say! Keep fighting!

the iu koto ha tatta hitotsu da , is kind of confusing.

Toritoribe · 24 Jul 2013

Everyone... now (もう), what I have to say(俺から言うこと) is only one word!(たった一つだ！) Let's win!(勝とうぜ！)

letianchen · 25 Jul 2013

I see, your translation cleared some things up.

俺が。。。ずっと好きだったミミを手に入れらんなくて、さみしくてまりやを身代わりにした。。とは考えないの

え。。。ゆうすけ？！

I.... This whole time I liked you mimi but I couldnt have you, I was lonely so I used mariya as a scape goat instead.

How do I make sense of the to wa kangeanai part? Is he trying to say he didn't think the parts he said before?
OR is he saying that, "But I didn't want to think about that.." , that seems to make sense in the situation.

Toritoribe · 25 Jul 2013

Don't you think~?

The subject of 考えない is "you".

letianchen · 25 Jul 2013

Thanks for response, this is what I initially thought but It didnt make sense to me.

How does don't you think fit into the part before? I know I can't translate it literally but is it something like

"Don't you think/realize that since I was lonely I used mariya as a scapegoat instead"

Toritoribe · 25 Jul 2013

身代わり means "substitute" here. He substituted Mariya for Mimi.

letianchen · 25 Jul 2013

Toritoribe said:
身代わり means "substitute" here. He substituted Mariya for Mimi.

Thanks!

ありえないどんな人間がそれに当てはまるというんだ
is the iu part quoting the rest? also what does maru do here?

Elizabeth · 25 Jul 2013

letianchen said:
Thanks

ありえないどんな人間がそれに当てはまるというんだ
is the iu part quoting the rest? also what does maru do here?

「まる」ではなく「当てはまる」で調べなさい。

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