Reputation points

I can't believe people would give negative rep just because they disagree with you. I have always understood that it was for if someone says something personally offensive or prejudiced. I have given positive rep to people I disagreed with before, if they make a clear point. I have never given negative rep, and I doubt I ever will - gotta think about karma! :-)
 
Yeah, I agree with Tsuyoiko.

Also I have never given negative rep. If I disagree with someone, that's no reason to bad rep them, especially if they made their point well, indeed like Tsuyoiko I sometimes gave them good rep in fact! The world is full of people who disagree with me!

If someone is really ignorant and offensive, I didn't even give bad rep, because I just feel sorry for them. If someone be that awful, well, IMO they are missing out on a lot of things and making themself very unhappy. I'd rather argue with them properly - a snappy bitchy comment from me isn't exactly going to make them change any!
 
Not only have folks given me bad rep points because they disagree with me, but they don't have the backbone to sign their name to it. That's really cowardly.

Have you ever noticed that when you put your cursor over the green points that a message pops up? What's up with that? Is it like a futune cookie???
 
Pararousia said:
Have you ever noticed that when you put your cursor over the green points that a message pops up? What's up with that? Is it like a futune cookie???

Wow! I hadn't noticed that! *dances off, checking everybody's messages*........ 😄
 
Pararousia said:
Not only have folks given me bad rep points because they disagree with me, but they don't have the backbone to sign their name to it. That's really cowardly.
That's usual, and actually, people do it far less often here than at other places. I just don't worry about it, and I must also admit to never leaving my name in the rare bad rep I give, but then I usually never leave my name in good reps either. I used to get one bad rep for every good rep I recieved, and I was one of the people with top rep for a while (at another forum)
Pararousia said:
Have you ever noticed that when you put your cursor over the green points that a message pops up? What's up with that? Is it like a futune cookie???
Interesting, the titles seem to be different here. At another forum, it says things like, 'Jack is a glorious beacon of light', or 'Jack is a name known to all'.

EDIT: Actually, mine says 'Revenant is a name known to all', and Tsuyoiko's says 'Tsuyoiko is a glorious beacon of light'. Pararousia and Kinsao's are however different from the other forum.
 
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I have only given bad rep to one person. Shortly afterwords he was banned, because of the rather offensive threads he started, also removed. Apart from that I have never felt the need to give bad rep. If I find the post offensive I will ignore it or try to find a valid discussion point with them. If they don't want engage in a decent discussion then they go into my "He's/she's an idiot" box and I will not continue to try to talk to them. If a post is well written and the views are well put forward, even if I do disagree with what is being said, I will give good rep. Unfortunaltely I forget about it sometimes and go days without posting any rep as my mind can be like a sieve.
 
Pararousia said:
Have you ever noticed that when you put your cursor over the green points that a message pops up? What's up with that? Is it like a futune cookie???

I always thought it correlates with post count since it's right next to it, but I guess it's more to do with reputation now that I look at some other of those points.

edit: I wonder what those with a lot of bad rep points would get.
 
Donate!

Mycernius said:
I have never felt the need to give bad rep. If I find the post offensive I will ignore it or try to find a valid discussion point with them. If they don't want engage in a decent discussion then they go into my "He's/she's an idiot" box and I will not continue to try to talk to them. If a post is well written and the views are well put forward, even if I do disagree with what is being said, I will give good rep. Unfortunaltely I forget about it sometimes and go days without posting any rep as my mind can be like a sieve.

Tsuyoiko said:
I can't believe people would give negative rep just because they disagree with you. I have always understood that it was for if someone says something personally offensive or prejudiced. I have given positive rep to people I disagreed with before, if they make a clear point. I have never given negative rep, and I doubt I ever will - gotta think about karma!

Kinsao said:
Also I have never given negative rep. If I disagree with someone, that's no reason to bad rep them, especially if they made their point well, indeed like Tsuyoiko I sometimes gave them good rep in fact! The world is full of people who disagree with me!
My thoughts exactly. I would not give a bad rep to someone for stating their opinion on a particular subject.



Pararousia said:
Not only have folks given me bad rep points because they disagree with me, but they don't have the backbone to sign their name to it. That's really cowardly.
If you want to see who is giving reputation points all you have to do is donate to Jref through Paypal. It is an added benefit for donators that surprised me. Any amount you could afford would be gladly accepted, and appreciated, I'm sure, as it costs money to keep a great site like this going. With so many members who participate on a regular basis, I'm surprised there aren't more.

lastmagi said:
I wonder what those with a lot of bad rep points would get.
Their little boxes are red.
 
rep points is just a way to try and control what we post on this forum. the people or person who leaves negative rep points because of a clash in beliefs is well...some words wont post because they will give me negative points
 
duff_o_josh said:
rep points is just a way to try and control what we post on this forum. the people or person who leaves negative rep points because of a clash in beliefs is well...some words wont post because they will give me negative points
Not really as you could always disable the rep points so it just shows a gray square. This way if someone gives you a bad rep point it would be the same as receiving a PM from them and nobody would know.

I don't think it's a form of control as, if someone is so squeamish (easily offended) about receiving a bad rep point that they won't post because of fear of it, they don't need to be posting on a mature forum. I think one should be able to defend one's opinion if they truly believe in it.
 
Mycernius said:
Unfortunaltely I forget about it sometimes and go days without posting any rep as my mind can be like a sieve.

Of all the things I've ever lost, I miss my mind the most. :D
 
I like the system

It seems likeツ people who are honest on all topics don't have lots of green lights. That's cool.
 
NovaTeacher said:
It seems like people who are honest on all topics don't have lots of green lights. That's cool.
I don't know about that. Certainly, people like MikeCash and a few others are dead honest, and have no qualms about saying they disagree. They have a lot of good rep as well.

There are people who are honest but just come across the wrong way to people at the other end of the opinion spectrum, and I can understand them not getting a whole lot of good rep.
 
from the moment i came here, i just recieved 2 neg rep from people, one ... well i dont know why she did, other one was from somebody who was a bit drunk, and wanted to have fun....

am i this nice? or should i open my mounth more ? mmm well i like the idea of getting BLUE balls in here... and that there will come an award for best poster or something, as it might give some more quality to some people ... like me hahahaha.....

btw, who can see who gave them neg rep points? or is that only when you are a donator?
 
Just like being Japanese

Revenant said:
I don't know about that. Certainly, people like MikeCash and a few others are dead honest, and have no qualms about saying they disagree. They have a lot of good rep as well.

What I meant to say was,
If people have only a few green lights, I assume they speak their mind, direct and not scared of confrontation (or a troll).

I haven't been on this forum long but I can feel some differences.
I think maybe people who care about the green lights talk like those managers who want to be liked by everyone.
On the other hand it does make people think and communicate their ideas in a more harmonious and understandable way.
It's very Japanese.
 
Scholbergs level of moral behaviour

duff_o_josh said:
rep points is just a way to try and control what we post on this forum. the people or person who leaves negative rep points because of a clash in beliefs is well...some words wont post because they will give me negative points

When you start letting the number of green lights next to your name control what you say, you're functioning at a lower level.

I guess I'll start giving my votes to people who have the balls to say what they think.

Josh,
I understand that YOUR point was made clearer by not finishing your statement.
 
Getting good reputation is nice, but honestly, I don't think anyone posts just to get good reputation points. At least I hope not.

I mean, truly, what good do they do you anyway?
 
dutch baka said:
btw, who can see who gave them neg rep points? or is that only when you are a donator?
From what I can gather it is a privilge you get as a donator
 
Mikawa Ossan said:
Getting good reputation is nice, but honestly, I don't think anyone posts just to get good reputation points. At least I hope not.

I mean, truly, what good do they do you anyway?
Trade it in for food or meal tickets ? :p
From what I gather, it works a bit like gaming priviledges (Is that the right word ? I'm not a gamer.) The more rep accumulated, the greater the impact of a single rep. to anyone, pointwise. It can work like a huge stock of arsenal, so the higher the points, the greater the power, and the greater the restraint of the opponent in a confontational situation. Machiavelli's maxim of "better to be feared than loved" seems to apply. I am not sure that can be called good; suffice to say there is a game analogy in the rep. system.
 
re: Kohlberg's stages of moral development

NovaTeacher said:
When you start letting the number of green lights next to your name control what you say, you're functioning at a lower level.

I guess I'll start giving my votes to people who have the balls to say what they think.

Josh,
I understand that YOUR point was made clearer by not finishing your statement.
There's a misspelling in your title, but the content you wanted to convey is new to me, and was worth taking notice. Thanks for the pointer, Nova Teacher.

Wiki: Kohlberg's stages of moral development
Kohlberg's stages of moral development

were developed by Lawrence Kohlberg to explain the development of moral reasoning. He created it while at University of Chicago when becoming fascinated with children's reactions to moral dilemmas. He wrote his doctoral dissertation there in 1958, outlining what is now his stages of moral development.

Kohlberg's theory holds that moral reasoning, which he thought to be the basis for ethical behavior, has developmental stages. Building upon Jean Piaget's previous work, he concluded that there are six identifiable stages of moral development. Later his model was revised and reduced to five stages given there was a lack of responses in studies owning to a clear boundary of the last stage of moral development.

Stages

Kohlberg's stages were broken into 3 different levels, pre-conventional, conventional and post-conventional. According to his model it is not possible to regress backwards in stages. It is also not possible to 'jump' stages; each stage provides new perspective and is "more comprehensive, differentiated and integrated than its predecessors."

Level 1 (Pre-Conventional)
- 1. Obedience and punishment orientation
- 2. Self-interest orientation

Level 2 (Conventional)
- 3. Interpersonal accord and conformity (aka. The good boy/good girl attitude)
- 4. Authority and social-order maintaining orientation (aka. Law and order morality)

Level 3 (Post-Conventional)
- 5. Social contract orientation
- 6. Universal ethical principles (aka. Principled conscience)
Pre-Conventional

(1-2) The pre-conventional level of moral reasoning is especially common in children, although adults can also exhibit this level of reasoning. Reasoners in the pre-conventional level judge the morality of an action by its direct consequences. The pre-conventional level consists of the first and second stage of moral development.

(1) Stage one, individuals focus on the direct consequences that their actions will have for themselves. For example, they think that an action is morally wrong if the person who commits it gets punished.

(2) Stage two espouses the what's in it for me position; right behavior being defined by what is in one's own best interest. Stage two reasoning shows a limited interest in the needs of others, but only to a point where it might further one's own interests, such as "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." Concern for others is not based on loyalty or intrinsic respect in stage two.

(3-4) Conventional

The conventional level of moral reasoning is typical of adolescents and adults. Persons who reason in a conventional way judge the morality of actions by comparing these actions to social rules and expectations. The conventional level consists of stages three and four of moral development.

(3) In Stage three, individuals whose moral reasoning is in stage three seek approval from other people. They try to be a good boy or good girl having learned that there is inherent value in doing so. Stage three reasoning may judge the morality of an action by evaluating its consequences in terms of a person's relationships.

(4) For Stage four, it is important to obey the laws and social conventions because of its importance to maintaining society. Moral reasoning in stage four is thus beyond the need for approval exhibited in stage three.

(5-6) Post-Conventional

The post-conventional level consists of stages five and six of moral development.

(5) In Stage five, persons have certain principles to which they may attach more value than laws, such as human rights or social justice. In this reasoning, actions are wrong if they violate these ethical principles. Laws are regarded as social contracts rather than dictums, and must be changed when necessary (provided there is agreement). By this reasoning laws that do not promote general social welfare, should be changed. Democratic governments are ostensibly based on Stage five reasoning.

(6) In Stage six, moral reasoning is based on the use of abstract reasoning using universal ethical principles. One way to do this is by imagining oneself in everyone else's shoes, imagining what they would decide if they were doing the same. While Kohlberg insisted that stage six exists, he had difficulty finding participants who use it. It appears that people rarely if ever reach stage six of Kohlberg's model.

Other

Kohlberg also observed that there is a stage 4½ or 4+ which is a transition from stage four to stage five. This stage is where people have become disaffected with the arbitrary nature of law and order reasoning and become moral relativists. This transition stage may result in either progress to stage five or in regression to stage four.

Kohlberg further speculated that a seventh stage may exist (Transcendental Morality) which would link religion with moral reasoning (See James Fowler's stages of faith).
Theoretical assumptions

The stages of Kohlberg's model refer to reasoning, not to actions or to people themselves. Kohlberg insists that the form of moral arguments is independent of the content of the arguments. According to Kohlberg, moral reasoning is a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition for moral action. Additionally, Piaget's stages of cognitive development are a necessary but not a sufficient condition for the development of moral reasoning. It is important to remember that he posits justice as the a priori summum bonum (justice is assumed to be equal with moral virtue).

According to Kohlberg, a person who progresses to a higher stage of moral reasoning cannot skip stages. For example, a person cannot jump from being concerned mostly with peer opinions (stage three) to being a proponent of social contracts (stage five). However, when persons encounter a moral dilemma and find their current level of moral reasoning unsatisfactory, they will look to the next level. Discovery of the limitations of the current stage of thinking promotes moral development.
Criticism

One criticism of Kohlberg's theory is that it emphasizes justice to the exclusion of other values. As a consequence of this, it may not adequately address the arguments of people who value other moral aspects of actions. For example, Carol Gilligan has argued that Kohlberg's theory is overly androcentric. His theory was the result of empirical research using only male participants.

Gilligan argued that Kohlberg's theory therefore did not adequately describe the concerns of women. She developed an alternative theory of moral reasoning that is based on the value of care. Although recent research has generally not found any gender differences in moral development, Gilligan's theory illustrates that theories on moral development do not need to focus on the value of justice.

Other psychologists have challenged the assumption that moral action is primarily reached by formal reasoning. For example, social intuitionists assume that people often make moral judgments without weighing concerns such as fairness, law, human rights and abstract ethical values. If this is true, the arguments that Kohlberg and other rationalist psychologists have analyzed are often no more than post-hoc rationalizations of intuitive decisions. This would mean that moral reasoning is less relevant to moral action than it seems.
 
NovaTeacher said:
Josh,
I understand that YOUR point was made clearer by not finishing your statement.


its not that i let it get to me, i enjoy this forum a lot. i just think that it is a interesting way of control. even if all i had was negative rep points it wouldnt stop me from posting or put me in fear for things that i say.
 
Actually, one of the things I've personally found quite refreshing about the Rep system, is that (with one notable exception by a moderator of all people) no one has resorted to it as a petty 'payback' mechanism. Despite the fact that I often strongly disagree with other posters views, the argument stays largely within the confines of the thread itself. At the end of the day this is a forum, i.e. a place of debate and exchange of ideas. If we all agreed with each other all the time, it would be a deadly dull place.
 
NovaTeacher said:
What I meant to say was,
If people have only a few green lights, I assume they speak their mind, direct and not scared of confrontation (or a troll).

I haven't been on this forum long but I can feel some differences.
I think maybe people who care about the green lights talk like those managers who want to be liked by everyone.
This is true to some extent, although a lot of, if not more, members who have disabled their points take that approach as well. Just as many of the more aggressive and confrontational ones are not afraid of showing them off.

On the other hand it does make people think and communicate their ideas in a more harmonious and understandable way.
It's very Japanese.
I personally don't see any difference between now and before the system began.
 
NovaTeacher said:
What I meant to say was,
If people have only a few green lights, I assume they speak their mind, direct and not scared of confrontation (or a troll).

I can't quite see how you arrive at that assumption.

I haven't been on this forum long but I can feel some differences.
I think maybe people who care about the green lights talk like those managers who want to be liked by everyone.
On the other hand it does make people think and communicate their ideas in a more harmonious and understandable way.
It's very Japanese.

I hope none of those last three sentences are true.
 
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