Re: Qing and Yi Dynasties

[Hiroshi66]

In 1910, East Asia used to be home to three countries - China, Japan, and Korea. China was led by the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911, 1931-1945), Japan was led by the Yamato Dynasty (660 B.C. - present), and Korea was led by the Yi Dynasty (1392-1910). Today, after war, political chaos, and modernization, the situation has changed.

The communist regime in China arrested the last Qing ruler as a war criminal. The republican government of the Chinese Republic refused to restore a dynasty which it had rebelled against. The communist regime in North Korea would never accept a king. The republic regime in South Korea was a republic. Thus, only the Yamatos in Japan remain as monarchs in East Asia.

I know for a fact that the Yi family has a modern day descendent, Yi Seok, who recently was allowed to return to South Korea. Do you think that he may be allowed to restore the Yi dynasty in the future as a constitutional monarchy and for symbolism?

Also - does the Qing Dynasty have any modern day descendents? Do you think the similar situation I described above will occur here?

Discuss.

 

[Glenn]

In 1910, East Asia used to be home to three countries - China, Japan, and Korea. China was led by the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911, 1931-1945), Japan was led by the Yamato Dynasty (660 B.C. - present), and Korea was led by the Yi Dynasty (1392-1910).

I thought in 1910 Japan was ruled by the Meiji "dynasty" (1868-1912). I'm assuming you're referring to the line of emperors having never been broken throughout Japanese history. Maybe I'm confusing the terminology here.

I know for a fact that the Yi family has a modern day descendent, Yi Seok, who recently was allowed to return to South Korea. Do you think that he may be allowed to restore the Yi dynasty in the future as a constitutional monarchy and for symbolism?

I don't know much about Korea, but my guess would be that they wouldn't allow it. I've never heard of a monarchy being restored in the modern world.

 

[Hiroshi66]

Hey Glenn - yeah, Meiji was the reigning emperor at the time, but essentially he was part of that Yamato dynasty.

Thanks for your insight.

 

[Yellow Emperor]

Also - does the Qing Dynasty have any modern day descendents? Do you think the similar situation I described above will occur here?

Yes, there are.
No, I don't think it will ever occur in China. China has been a republic for almost 100 years, and her people have been indoctrinated with the republicanism.

 

[Hiroshi66]

Can I make a wild guess as to who those descendents are? I know Pu Yi never fathered any children - but his brother Pu Chieh did have two daughters - one commited suicide in the 1950's but the other remaining daughter is still alive and has children. So, IF China was to restore the Qing monarchy, would she be eligable to be Empress, even if she has had a Japanese education, etc?

 

[Yellow Emperor]

Can I make a wild guess as to who those descendents are? I know Pu Yi never fathered any children - but his brother Pu Chieh did have two daughters - one commited suicide in the 1950's but the other remaining daughter is still alive and has children. So, IF China was to restore the Qing monarchy, would she be eligable to be Empress, even if she has had a Japanese education, etc?

You're thinking about Prince Zaifeng's lineage. However, there were other princes who had children and some still carried their imperial surname. Anyway, the possibility of "return of the emperor" is very low.

 

[Hiroshi66]

Yes. Isn't that the official imperial lineage, Yellow Emperor?

True, but IF there was a restoration. Would that occur?

 

[Yellow Emperor]

Yes. Isn't that the official imperial lineage, Yellow Emperor?

True, but IF there was a restoration. Would that occur?

Officially, if the former emperor didn't have a heir, his brother would be enthroned. If his brother was dead, then his brother's son would be the emperor. If his brother didn't have a son, the emperor's cousin would inherit the throne. If all of his cousins were dead, then they'd pick one of their children....etc.

Since Pu Yi didn't have any children and Pu Jie only had daughters, then that's how the "official lineage" would work.

If there was a restoration, I highly doulbt it'd occur. The only empress China ever had was Empress Wu Zetian. She gained power by various political schemes and coup d'etat.

 

[Hiroshi66]

I see. So even as a symbolic monarchy, would they [Qing and Yi dynasties] never be reinstated as emperors?

 

[Yellow Emperor]

I see. So even as a symbolic monarchy, would they [Qing and Yi dynasties] never be reinstated as emperors?

Japan has a continuos imperial lineage ﾃ､ﾃ敖青｢ﾋ?ｪﾅ地. However, Chinese believed in "political power comes out of barrels of guns". Once an imperial dynasty proved to be incompetent, someone would rise up and establish a new one. Therefore, China had many dynasties suceeding one another. Qing dynasty had its turn, and I doubt people would restore Qing monarchy when Qing was just one of the many dynasties. The descendents of Qing monarchs are no more important than descendants of Qin, Han , Sui, Tang, Song, Yuan, Ming....etc. If Chinese were to establish a constitutional monarchy, it'd be a whole new dynasty.

 

[Hiroshi66]

I see. What about Korea? It was different in Korea, since the Yi monarchs ruled much longer than the Qing (who ruled from 1644 to 1911 - the Yi ruled from 1392 to 1910) - so is it the same for Korea?

 

[Yellow Emperor]

I see. What about Korea? It was different in Korea, since the Yi monarchs ruled much longer than the Qing (who ruled from 1644 to 1911 - the Yi ruled from 1392 to 1910) - so is it the same for Korea?

We have Korean members here, you may ask them. From my perspective, the Yi monarchs wouldn't be restored. Korea, just like China, had many dynasties, and Yi had its time already.

 

[Hiroshi66]

Okay. And in that case, there really is no reason for a new dynasty to be erected that is symbolic. The whole point of symbolism is to symbolize something from the past. Then again, there are descendents from the Ming and Song families, or at least the Tang, right?

 

[Yellow Emperor]

Then again, there are descendents from the Ming and Song families, or at least the Tang, right?

Yes, except we wouldn't know. Many descendants of a previous dynasty would change their surnames in order to escape from purging of the succeeding government. Besides, Ming carried the surname Zhu, Song carried the surname Zhao, and Tang carried the surname Li. Those are very common surnames in China, it's hard to identify. On contrary, Qing monarchs were left alone because when Emperor Pu Yi abdicated, he and his empress dowager Longyu, signed a contract with the government of Republic of China, which guaranteed to continue to let the Qing monarchs reside in the imperial palace and would receive regular salary. Also, because Qing monarchs were Manchu, they had an unique surname (which is Aixinjueluo), so they're easier to be identified.
In fact, I know a descedant of Qing is now a model in Hong Kong. That princess is quite hot indeed.

 

[Hiroshi66]

I see. There's also a rumor that H.H. Kung, who was a high ranking official in Kuomintang China and who's wife was the sister of Meiling Soong (he was brothers in law with Dr. Sun and Chiang Kai Shek) descended from Confucius.

I know the Ming dynasty fled to Burma in the 1600s after the fall of the dynasty. The reason China invaded Burma in the 1660's was to find and execute the Ming emperor. They failed.

 

[Haivart]

What about Cambodia?

 

[Hiroshi66]

Cambodia still has a king. However good question.

Is the current king of Cambodia descended from the Angkor Wat monarchs?

 

[nhk9]

There would be virtually no way that a "constitutional monarchy" would be set in China any time soon. And there would be even less chance of the Chinese getting one of the descendents back to the throne, since the Manchus were considered to be the "invaders" back in the 1600s by the Han people, an ethnic group which makes up more than 90% of China's population at the time. There are actually many novels that surround the events that took place during the wars between the Hans and Manchu. Within many of these novels, there are usually at least one or a few "kung fu" groups that have the doctrine of "fanqingfuming", or "rebel the qing dynasty, restore the ming dynasty". Obviously, the resentment by the mainland people toward their Manchu masters was largely noticeable.

 

[Maciamo]

I thought in 1910 Japan was ruled by the Meiji "dynasty" (1868-1912). I'm assuming you're referring to the line of emperors having never been broken throughout Japanese history. Maybe I'm confusing the terminology here.

It is in fact the Yamato Dynasty, while Meiji was just the era name, based on the Emperor's name.

 

[Hiroshi66]

Nhk, that is very true. Koxinga's Taiwan was bent on executing the Qing. However, as symbols of the state, can't Korea at least allow a Yi to become king again? If Yi Seok becomes "King of Korea" and has similar powers to the Emperor of Japan, he cannot attempt a coup de tat. That era of military coups is done in Korea. Maybe not China, but Korea is ready to restore the monarchy.