Quick question on the eyeballs!

[Emoni]

Finishing up my Tanka still (yup, still working on it...), but I have run into a slight problem yet again.

Mainly, I'm just wondering if "hitomi no desu yo" translates correctly to "Your eyes are."

Normally, I don't use no this way, but I remember that there was a way to leave out one of the parts if it is clear what is being spoken of.

Is this correct?

(Edit: Tacking on another question just for the heck of it. Is it possible to use "itsumo" followed by a word such as kashikoi to effectively say "always smart"?)

 

[PaulTB]

What's the line before / after?

I suppose could be 'hitomi no _____ desu yo' where ______ is omitted as understood. What about the 'no desu' used for 'explanatory' sort of sentences?
JG|ndesu

いつも賢いですね。itsumo kashikoi desu ne. Always the clever one, huh?
Looks OK to me.

 

[Emoni]

Mostly, it is just discriptions with adverbs and adjectives. I'm hoping to some how say "Your eyes are these/this" but I was told anata no me wasn't appropriate, nor does anata no hitomi seem fitting either.

Hmm, I guess what I need is a couple examples of how to say "your eyes" as quick and short as possible

 

[PaulTB]

Originally posted by Emoni
Hmm, I guess what I need is a couple examples of how to say "your eyes" as quick and short as possible

Oh! You're writing, not translating.

Well the quickest way would be just 'hitomi/me wa ...' everybody will assume you're talking about _somebody else's_ eyes unless you are a very strange narcissistic* person.

* I can't spell narcissistic.

 

[Emoni]

Oh yes, sorry. Ya, I'm writing a tanka for someone ;P Been spending a very long time on it, hoping to get what I want to say across just right. I don't want her to look at it an notice errors instead of meaning so obsessing over correctness.

Just hitomi wa huh? Would hitomi wa desu yo work as well? Even after two years of on and off japanese, the details get me every time.

 

[PaulTB]

Originally posted by Emoni
Just hitomi wa huh? Would hitomi wa desu yo work as well? Even after two years of on and off japanese, the details get me every time.

Er, before I get things any more confused I'd better get a few things
sorted out.
1. 'hitomi' is pupil, not eye. 'me' is closer for that ... BUT 'randomme Google link' says "However,
in Japanese poetry you should avoid "me" as eye and use "hitomi"
instead".

2. 'your eyes' and 'hitomi wa/ha' are sentence fragments. They
aren't complete sentences. A full sentence would be more like
"hitomi wa nagareboshi no you ni kageyaiteru" (Your) Eyes sparkle like falling stars.

3. A tanka would probably not use the 'polite' form (desu) but the
plain, or in this case, intimate form (da).

4. Please bear in mind that I very little about songs, poetry etc Japanese or otherwise.

 

[Emoni]

Either way you seem to know what you are talking about as much as everyone else I have talked to.

How does this sound so far?

美しい
いつも賢い
優しいの
瞳はですよ
さようなら姫

(romanji version)
Utsukushii
Itsumo kashikoi
Yasashii no
Hitomi wa desu yo
Sayounara Hime

Wanted to fit so much in... but I'm so limited by this, and don't even know if I'm on the right track either. College starts up soon, so I'll bug my Japanese teacher, but I wanted to try to get as close as I could before hand. Wonder if there is a certain way of presenting tankas? Such as a scroll format. I'm hoping to paint this on a sheet or cloth before I give it...

 

[PaulTB]

Originally posted by Emoni
Either way you seem to know what you are talking about as much as everyone else I have talked to.

How does this sound so far?

美しい
いつも賢い
優しいの
瞳はですよ
さようなら姫

(romanji version)
Utsukushii
Itsumo kashikoi
Yasashii no
Hitomi wa desu yo
Sayounara Hime

Wanted to fit so much in... but I'm so limited by this, and don't even know if I'm on the right track either. College starts up soon, so I'll bug my Japanese teacher, but I wanted to try to get as close as I could before hand. Wonder if there is a certain way of presenting tankas? Such as a scroll format. I'm hoping to paint this on a sheet or cloth before I give it...

Hmm, erm, ...
/me stalls for time
/me points
"Look! Joseph Stalin eating a bannana!"
/me runs away





Seriously my composition skills are very, very rusty but I'll see what I can do.

5 美しい、
7 いつも賢い、
5 優しいの <- There's no need for a の here, leaving you one mora down.
7 瞳はですよ <- I'm afraid that doesn't work.
7 さようなら姫

Well, if we ignore the advise on not using 目 then you could have

5 美しい、
7 いつも賢い、
5 優しい目
7 がある先生。
7 さようなら姫。

Which I suppose, if I'm lucky, would translate as

Beautiful,
Always smart,
Teacher with
gentle eyes.
Farewell Princess.

 

[Emoni]

Thanks for looking it over.

I was hoping the fourth line would work, considering the last line uses a formal title. Is that why it doesn't fit? Simply because of desu?

What I am hoping to do, is relate everything to the fourth line, the eyes. I was trying for

5Utsukushii,

7(something to do with piercing intelligences in a way that would fit with eyes in the end)

5(something about showing will power, determination and strength, but choose gentleness sense was more appropriate)

7Statement relating everything to eyes.

7And the final line is a must have that I know is already set.

Thank you for the help. Hopefully, the next draft I can continue to get closer to perfection.

 

[PaulTB]

Originally posted by Emoni
I was hoping the fourth line would work, considering the last line uses a formal title. Is that why it doesn't fit? Simply because of desu?

No, it just doesn't make sense. 瞳は is a sentence fragment.
You can say 瞳は＿＿です, 瞳は＿＿だ、or even 瞳は＿＿ but you can't say 瞳はです。 because です is (roughly) speaking used to show equivalence, e.g. X is Y, XはYです。(Note that the Xは bit can be omitted if it is understood from context).

JG|da

What I am hoping to do, is relate everything to the fourth line, the eyes.

Practically speaking if you want everything related to the eyes you might be better off with them in the first line - except getting it to five mora is a pain.

If all the adjectives apply to the fourth line then they should have the くて form, otherwise it looks like they are lines on their own.
But then the mora are wrong again.

6 美しくて <- one over

I was trying for
5 Utsukushii,
7 (something to do with piercing intelligences in a way that would fit with eyes in the end)
5(something about showing will power, determination and strength, but choose gentleness sense was more appropriate)
7Statement relating everything to eyes.

Good luck then ^^v

7And the final line is a must have that I know is already set.

Well the last line is OK.

 

[Glenn]

Originally posted by Emoni
Thanks for looking it over.

I was hoping the fourth line would work, considering the last line uses a formal title. Is that why it doesn't fit? Simply because of desu?

No, it doesn't work because saying Xはだ/です makes no sense. は is the topic marker, so it marks the preceding noun/phrase as the topic of the sentence. Therefore, when you hear は you are waiting to hear just what it is about the noun/phrase before は, and since the copula doesn't tell you anything about it, it doesn't make sense. By the way, a copula alone is never the predicate in Japanese; the predicate of a copula sentence is noun/noun phrase plus copula. For instance, the predicate of 太郎は先生だ would be 先生だ, and not just だ.

Source: Teach Yourself Japanese

 

[Emoni]

Try #545

Well, here is what I have now for those who can spot the almost promised errors that it contains Ahh... to seek perfection in something I know so little of is just a tad difficult.

美しい
いつも賢い
親切な
瞳にいます
さようなら姫


I guess the new changes are this

親切な (Kind hearted? Dictionary listed it with na, seemed to make sense with that particle after it...)

and

瞳にいます (<--- Correct if you want to relate a persona in something living?

(Edit: Wish there was a specific Haiku/Tanka forum area...)

 

[Elizabeth]

Re: Try #545

Well, here is what I have now for those who can spot the almost promised errors that it contains Ahh... to seek perfection in something I know so little of is just a tad difficult.

美しい
いつも賢い
親切な
瞳にいます
さようなら姫[/QUOTE]

I'm not precisely sure exactly what you're trying to say from statements worded as "something related to," but "親切な
瞳にいます さようなら姫" reads to me something like "farewell princess in your/her (?) nice/kind pupils."

 

[Emoni]

Hmm, well was supposed to be seperate fragments by line. The first 5 7 5 describe, while the second to last 7 gives insight to what is being described, ending with the good bye. More of a personal thing really.

Is it that confusing though? Is the grammar right, or is it just a jumbled broken mess? Gotta have everything perfect. Don't want the person to be distracted from the meaning I'm "attempting" to get across by glaring errors hehe.

 

[Elizabeth]

As was already discussed, it isn't entirely correct in the sense you would need for a sentence. That would either require "beauty" and "wisdom" to be nouns, as the subject of what is in your kind eyes ; or you'd have to make the adjectival endings line up -- but I don't know the conventions for this type of poetry either. And I suppose if "Sayonara princess" isn't actually what is in your pupils either "iru" or "aru" will do? Or just "hitomi no naka ni" ?

 

[PaulTB]

Looking around it seems that the odd mora over on a line can be overlooked - for kids and translations from English anyway.

Given that said kids have better Japanese than you do (no offense, I expect they have better Japanese than I do) I think you could get away with the odd 8 mora line if it helps.

Incidentally you seemed slightly unsure about 親切な瞳

親切 is a na-adjective and it does modify 瞳 when written like that.
JG|na
It's much the same as の is with nouns. (e.g. 短歌のページ = a tanka web page)

Unfortunately I suspect that Japanese wouldn't describe 瞳 as being 親切.