What's new

Welcome to Japan Reference (JREF) - the community for all Things Japanese.

Join Today! It is fast, simple, and FREE!

Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

Qualifying a noun with a verb

jaspion

Registered
Joined
30 Jun 2020
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Hello.

I am aware that you can qualify a noun with a verb, and that verb the can be in both present and past tense as long as it is in plain form.

However, between these two sentences, why is the first one correct, yet the second is wrong?

今日は果物を使ったサラダを作ります。
今日は果物を使うサラダを作ります。
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Moderator
Joined
22 Feb 2008
Messages
17,184
Reaction score
3,379
I don't know where you got the second one was wrong, but actually it's not wrong. Indeed 使った is more common, but 使う is also acceptable. See the following examples quoted from a corpus.

しかし、実際には、一部の食材を蒸煮して加える場合もある(たとえば、ゆでポテトを使うサラダのように)。

いまはフランスでだってヴェジガを使う料理なんか滅多につくらないというのに、
西洋料理ではソースを使う料理のうち大半がトマトベースを使ったものだといってよいほど、
モモ肉は、ロースト、バーベキュー、カレーなど、牛肉を使う料理の多くに適している。
ナツメグ 種子 ひき肉と玉ネギを使う料理との相性は抜群で、ハンバーグやミートローフには欠かせないスパイス。
京都では水菜を使う料理がありますが、
卵焼きやオムライス、かに玉のように全卵を使う料理では、黄身を減らしてカロリーオフを。

The key is where the reference point in time is put. The following post might be somewhat helpful for your understanding (a bit complicated especially for beginners, though).
 

jaspion

Registered
Joined
30 Jun 2020
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Thank you very much for your reply. :)

I don't know where you got the second one was wrong, but actually it's not wrong. Indeed 使った is more common, but 使う is also acceptable. See the following examples quoted from a corpus.

The first sentence was in one of my JLPT books, and I wondered as to why they used the past tense. I was just told that the first one was natural, but the second (present tense) was not, with no further clarification. That made me curious.

I think I do understand the idea of the reference point... in that by the time the salad is ready, the fruits will have been used, so they used past. But I wouldn't be able to explain why the 使う料理 sentences you presented are correct. This topic might be really be too advanced for me 😅
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Moderator
Joined
22 Feb 2008
Messages
17,184
Reaction score
3,379
I think I do understand the idea of the reference point... in that by the time the salad is ready, the fruits will have been used, so they used past.
Yes, your understanding is correct.(y)

But I wouldn't be able to explain why the 使う料理 sentences you presented are correct.
An interpretation is that ~を使うサラダ/料理 has a nuance of "those kinds of dishes/salads in general" since the present form can express a habitual/repeatedly-occurred action. In fact, all the examples I quoted above have this nuance. On the other hand, your example is talking about a specific salad with fruits. That's why 使った is more natural than 使う there.
 
Top Bottom