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pronuntiation, ending -su

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patroclus

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As I study Japanese on my own, and I have no one to practice, I sometimes get all the listening exercises from anime I see, subtitled.
I think I know the basic of pronuntiation, and I thought the -su ending like "desu", "gozaimasu", "u" did not sound. "des", "gozaimas". As well as the "ista", that sounds like "sta".
But I've seen an anime today, in which a girl said "desu", making the final u noticiable...
Anyone can take me out of this stupid question?
 
The Japanese language has a lot of silent letters:

desu pronounced as dess

yonde iru pronounced as yonderu

Just think of these as silent letters.

~~~

No Japanese speakers around? Get a study-buddy. Practice saying things to each other. I have lots of ideas on how to make this a successful study situation.
 
I heard this girl in the anime say "desu", and I could hear the final "u".. that's what confuses me.

I know no one that studies Japanese...Indeed, all people here around me find it very weird to study Japanese.
 
How about voice-chat?

If you really want to learn Japanese pronunciation and have a microphone and speakers, we could voice-chat on MSN, Yahoo or Skype messenger. If you do, IM me here and give me your e-mail addy, and I will add you on my list.
 
patroclus: some people (mostly girls) will pronounce the final unvoiced consonants in some cases to make themselves sound more formal or feminine. I would recommend sticking to the pronunciation that buntaro explained above.
 
yonde iru pronounced as yonderu
Click to expand...

I believe this isn't a silent letter, but an actual shortening of the word for colloquial purposes. When written for speech, like in a script, that would be written "yonderu." Yondeiru is properly pronounced with the i with the ei part blending together.

I tend to think that the emphasized ending sound of desu is nothing more than an attempt to sound cute. Anime isn't the best way to learn japanese.

Pronunciation of the final u in words can vary by speaker, pace of speech, emphasizing a point, etc.
 
Not only the 'i' before 's' is devoiced this also happens when it occurs in syllables like shi, chi, hi, ki, pi that precede the voiceless consonants
ch, f, h, p, s, shi, t or ts. And of course at the ends of words or when the syllable is not accented.

You may have been thinking of a whispered but not entirely silent sound which I'm lost for on 'is(shi?)ta'....everyone has their own system of romanization, as long as you keep it consistently.
 
MeAndroo is right, yonderu is a colloquialism.

People in the Kansai region (men and women) are more likely to pronounce all the vowels and not devoice than people in Tokyo.
 
I don't know if "colloquialism" is the correct term for things like "yonderu", but neither is it a "silent letter". It is an ellision (I think that's the term).

"yonde iru" becomes "yonderu" in the same way that "shite oku" becomes "shitoku"....ellision
 
how about "common contraction"
 
"-te iru -> -teru" and "-te oku -> -toku" are colloquialisms and elisons.

Omitting the /u/ in desu, -masu, and posuto, or the /i/ in -mashita is an elision but not a colloquialism.

The original poster asked about the second bunch, the non-colloquial elisions, and it's confusing to try and lump them together with the colloquial ones.
 
Yes, I was not talking about colloquialism. Just wanted to know why some people do pronounce -u in desu (slightly, but clearly). And also, why sometimes when "shi", the "i" also is pronounced. Is it silent only in forms like "mashita" ?
 
JimmySeal said:
People in the Kansai region (men and women) are more likely to pronounce all the vowels and not devoice than people in Tokyo.
Click to expand...

There's one reason for you.
 
Nice gaijin's explanation was pretty good. People pronounce vowels that otherwise wouldn't be pronounced in order to sound either feminine or more formal. So a store clerk or a person giving a speech might pronounce those vowels fully whereas in other situations they would be devoiced. And there's always the Kansai region, as I mentioned earlier, where even men will pronounce most of their vowels most of the time. Here's the rule for when a vowel can be devoiced (if the speaker chooses to do so).

If an /i/ or /u/ falls on an unaccented syllable, and is preceeded and followed by an unvoiced consonant (k, s, t, h, f) or occurs at the end of a word preceded by an unvoiced consonant, it can be devoiced.

The /i/ in ashita (tomorrow) is often devoiced, as is the /i/ in akita. In both cases the accent is on the first syllable. Your best bet is just to imitate other people and just converse enough until you have a feel for what's natural. Accenting and devoicing is hard. Just yesterday, I was corrected for saying "cloud" (KUmo), when I wanted to say "spider" (kuMO).
 
Wakarimashita.

By the way.. is there any way of knowing where the accent is?
 
unfortunately, there is no explicit way of knowing where the accent is just by reading. The best way to learn pronunciation is through listening practice.
 
The 国語 dictionary at dictionary.goo.ne.jp provides numbers next to the entry words to show where the accent is, but it doesn't really explain them. I don't really understand them. Plus, in different parts of the country the accents can be completely different. So really the best thing to do is imitate the people around you.
 
patroclus said:
Yes, I was not talking about colloquialism. Just wanted to know why some people do pronounce -u in desu (slightly, but clearly). And also, why sometimes when "shi", the "i" also is pronounced. Is it silent only in forms like "mashita" ?
Click to expand...
(1) -i of "ki", "shi" and "chi"
(2) -u of "ku", "su" and "tsu"
are not pronounced when
(a) it is the end of the word
e.g. keek［i］, kach［i］, tosh［i］, des［u］, karas［u］, kats［u］
(b) it is followed by ka/ki/ku/ke/ko or ta/chi/tsu/te/to.
e.g. k［i］ta, sh［i］ka, ch［i］kyuu, k［u］ki, s［u］teki, ts［u］ki
*Exception
(a)
If the tone of the word is H-L (High-Low like tatsu = to stand), -i/-u is unvocalized but in case of L-H (like tatsu = dragon), -i/-u is voiced.
e.g.
kak［i］ (oyster, vase)
kaki (persimmon)
(a)(b)
When it follows unvocalized -i/-u
e.g. -i of "ts［u］ki"
Even when these -i/-u are not voiced, mounth forms it (cannot found proper way to describe it) just like when you are whispering.
Of course, when one try to emphasize the word and pronounced it kana by kana, -i/-u are vocalized clealy even it is above (a) or (b).
And JimmySeal san pointed out earlier, in Kansai region they tend to voice these -i/-u.
 
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