Pronouns!! Help!!

Tomii515 · 6 Mar 2007

OK. Well, I'm using a textbook, and it explain the section on pronouns pretty well, but the workbook was confusing me... these are the pronounce they give you:

For first person:
(btw, I don't feel like typeing in Japanese right now, because I'm in a rush)

very formal: watakushi (I): watakushidomo (we); watakusitachi (we)

formal: watashi (I): watashtachi (we); wareware (we)

informal: boku [male] (I): atashi [female] (I): bokutachi [male] (we); bokura [male] (we); atashitachi [female] (we); atashira [female] (we)

vulgar: ore [male] (I): oretachi [male] (we); orera [male] (I)

-------

OK.... Those are just the first person ones... anyways...

They give examples telling when you should use which (suggesting you don't use a wrong one by mistake, to use "watashi"). Umm, the thing I'm basically haveing problems with the the "vulgar" form...

1) what does "vulgar" acctually mean?
2) how do you know when to use the vulgar form?

the examples they give for the vulgar form:

a 25-year old male student: to another student: ore

:S

well, and for you, the non-male vulgar "anta", it says "a girl to a close female friend"hmm...

Well, basically the point to this is, with the vulgar form for the 1st person (ore, oretachi, orera) and for 2nd person (omae, anta, omaetachi, omaera, antatachi, antara), with whom do you us eit with? for both girl and boys (of around the same age)?

Thanks!!!!!

thanks

oops, i said thanks 2 times... lol

-tommy

Buntaro · 6 Mar 2007

Tomi,

Vulgar means unacceptable in a specific social situation. You would not say "Dude!" to a college professor, would you? This is what they are talking about.

"How do you know when to use the vulgar form?"

--> You do not. All it takes is one slip-up, and you will offend someone deeply. Do not chance it.

It will only come slowly, as you get more conversational practice. Untill then, avoid the vulgar forms.

Tomii515 · 6 Mar 2007

Well, I knew that. I knew I shouldn't use it. I didn't know exactly what "vulgar" meant, all I knew is that I meant "bad" or something. I though I understtod it, but in the workbook, the girl say "omae" to the guy. And when we had to answer the qustiont hat said "why do ou think she used "omae"?" the answer said because she was very supirior to him... but, did she use "omae" because he's a guy, or because she's acting manly? That was basically the main question. That's really what I didn't understand.

Oh. I'd rather learn thingsthan avoid them.

p.s. I wouldn't say "dude" to anyone >.<!

Damicci · 6 Mar 2007

Look at it this way. If your with close friends, your normally have some vulgar comments or conversations. Same thing. Not really rocket science. You already know the differences between polite and casual. Use the same Judgement.

Supervin · 6 Mar 2007

which textbook did you get the list from?

Tomii515 · 8 Mar 2007

Empathic said:
which textbook did you get the list from?

Japanese in Mangaland, why?

gibbousmoon · 8 Mar 2007

I'm no Japanese guru, but here's my experiences with the word "ore," at the least.

I spent a year at an all-boy's high school in Japan, and EVERYONE used "ore" with each other. The teachers used all three forms: "ore," "watashi," and "boku," depending on the teacher's personality.

Later, at around college age, I got made fun of by Japanese girls for using the word "watashi" instead of "ore." (I approve of your decision to learn, rather than avoid.)

If you're a confident kind of person, you can generally use "ore" around anyone with whom you have nothing to lose, or super-casual relationships. (In other words, if you're a guy, use it around your buddies and use it around women to whom you want to convey a super casual image, for whatever reason.)

Make sense?

-Moon

Tomii515 · 9 Mar 2007

OK.. I udually use "boku" though, so alright anyways ><

akai ken · 9 Mar 2007

gibbousmoon said:
I'm no Japanese guru, but here's my experiences with the word "ore," at the least.
I spent a year at an all-boy's high school in Japan, and EVERYONE used "ore" with each other. The teachers used all three forms: "ore," "watashi," and "boku," depending on the teacher's personality.
Later, at around college age, I got made fun of by Japanese girls for using the word "watashi" instead of "ore." (I approve of your decision to learn, rather than avoid.)
If you're a confident kind of person, you can generally use "ore" around anyone with whom you have nothing to lose, or super-casual relationships. (In other words, if you're a guy, use it around your buddies and use it around women to whom you want to convey a super casual image, for whatever reason.)
Make sense?
-Moon

That's one hec% of a tip there.

gibbousmoon · 9 Mar 2007

Tomii515 said:
OK.. I usually use "boku" though, so alright anyways ><

"Boku" is safer, though it does convey a kind of boyish image in the minds of some. Though many adults use it all the time.

dark_secrester · 16 Mar 2007

gibbousmoon said:
I got the Sharp PW-V9500 for the rock bottom price of 20,000 yen. It replaces my Sharp PW-7000 which I have been using since 1999. Ironically this new one cost less than the old one did at the time and it does a zillion times more! (Sorry, Glenn! I was mistaken when I told you I had a Casio!)

Good call. I would have recommended a Sharp of all the makers. Their prices are lower than comparable models of other brands, without any loss in quality. The only thing I've noticed Sharp dictionaries to lack is English menus, which has never been a problem.
Still, the more I learn about learning, the less I use a dictionary. Half a year ago, my Sharp and I were inseparable, and now I hardly touch the thing, though my fervor for studying Japanese hasn't dwindled a bit. I've been preaching the gospel of Gethin, Gunnemark and Bond a lot lately but if you've never read these pages, you should check 'em out:
english-learning.co.uk
http://static.unilang.org/resources/vocab/vocdb.html

Glenn · 16 Mar 2007

O...K...

By the way, topic/contrastive marker wa is written は in hiragana. So (guessing at the transliteration of "gibbous," here) it should be ギバス・ムーンさんはろうこうではありませんか.

dark_secrester · 17 Mar 2007

すみません。わたしのIMEはわういです。
It keeps on putting wa instead of ha, even when I type ha.
IMEはばかばかばかばかばかです！！

Glenn · 17 Mar 2007

What's わうい?

-------------------------

gibbousmoon · 17 Mar 2007

dark_secrester said:
ギッボウスムウンわろうこうでわありませんか。
あはははははははははははははははははははははははははははははははは！！！！

じゃまた
ジョー

I prefaced my entire explanation with the context of my experience, so the op could see exactly where I am coming from and what limitations were and were not there. So I fail to see the point of your questioning whether I am an "expert."

Why not contribute something constructive for a change? Like disagreeing with my post and showing where it is incorrect? Because, as it stands, your contribution thus far is utterly useless to the person who made this post asking for advice.

undrentide · 17 Mar 2007

Glenn said:
What's わうい?

Maybe it meant to be わるい（悪い）？
I cannot figure out what ろうこう could mean, by the way...
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gibbousmoon · 17 Mar 2007

undrentide said:
Maybe it meant to be わるい（悪い）？
I cannot figure out what ろうこう could mean, by the way...

I think he meant 老巧, as in 老練. Or maybe he's just pissin' about. Hard to tell with a post like that.

Pronouns!! Help!!

Tomii515

やった～！

Buntaro

運動不足

Tomii515

やった～！

Damicci

先輩

Supervin

先輩

Tomii515

やった～！

gibbousmoon

先輩

Tomii515

やった～！

akai ken

先輩

gibbousmoon

先輩

dark_secrester

Guest

Glenn

一切皆苦

dark_secrester

Guest

Glenn

一切皆苦

gibbousmoon

先輩

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

gibbousmoon

先輩

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