Present continuous tense, negative form

inadera · 18 Jul 2012

If we use the present progressive tense in Japanese, let's say for the word 俯く, it will become 俯いている. Normally, if we want to make a word into its negative form, we turn it into the desired form first and then make it negative. For the word 信じる, if we want to make the negative potential form we should make it like this:
信じる → 信じられる → 信じられない

If we make it that way, for the word 俯く we should make it like this to get the negative form for the present continuous tense:
俯く → 俯いている → 俯いていない

But I wonder if it's okay to make it negative first, and then turning it into its present continuous form like this:
俯く → 俯かない → 俯かなくている

Well, I think I need some explanation about this. And I'm wondering why the plain negative forms for the past and present progressive tense are omitted here: Conjugation of Japanese verb utsumuku
But I think 俯いていない might be okay, since 俯いています and 俯いていません are listed.

Glenn · 18 Jul 2012

俯いていない is more common, but you could also say 俯かないでいる. *俯かなくている, however, does not exist.

Toritoribe · 18 Jul 2012

The meaning is different between 俯いていない and 俯かないでいる. The former one is the negative of 俯いている, thus, it simply expresses the current state; "not to be looking down now". Whereas the latter one is the present progressive of 俯かない, thus, it expresses the action "not to look down" is ongoing; "to keep not looking down".

Glenn · 18 Jul 2012

Is this a distinction most native speakers will draw? I remember a discussion about making the a passive-causative verb to show that something was caused to happen to you (ame ni furaresaseta, for example), but I seem to remember at least one native speaker saying "no" when I asked him about it. Is this case significatly different?

Toritoribe · 18 Jul 2012

Yes, those two forms are different. ～ないでいる has a nuance of "not to do consciously/to keep the state(not doing) consciously", therefore it's unnatural to use this form for ordinary situation.

今、日本語を勉強していない(simple explantion of the present state)
今、日本語を勉強しないでいる(not to study/to have been studying for a reason/purpose. Someone makes you stop studying?)

～ないでいる can be used for a request/order "keep not doing".

バースデーパーティーのことは、本人にはまだ話さないでいてください。 (keep the state "not to tell")
バースデーパーティーのことは、本人にはまだ話していないでください。(?)

～ないでいる is the same as ～ずにいる.

inadera · 18 Jul 2012

I think I got it, thanks for the explanation

So ～ないでいる means that, I've been wondering about it for a while too. But how do we use ～ずにいる? Do we just need to make the verb into its plain negative form (minus the ～ない ending) and then adding ～ずにいる to the word? I think I haven't seen any sentences with ～ずにいる before, I've just googled it and got these sentences:
- 結婚できずにいる
- 変わらずにいる

Toritoribe · 18 Jul 2012

ず is a classical auxiliary verb for nagation. The only difference from ない is when attached to -suru verbs. せ is used for the case instead of し. (せ is the imperfective form(未然形[みぜんけい]) of the classical verb す, which is the equivalent to する in modern Japanese.)
e.g.
○結婚しないでいる
○結婚せずにいる
✕結婚しずにいる

○変化しないでいる
○変化せずにいる
✕変化しずにいる

inadera · 19 Jul 2012

So I guess for the verb する I'll associate it with せよ when using ずにいる

Toritoribe · 19 Jul 2012

Not an imperative form せよ but an imperfective form せ, e.g., 返事をせずにいる. This is from a classical verb conjugation which is different from the modern ones.

Present continuous tense, negative form

inadera

後輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Glenn

一切皆苦

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

inadera

後輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

inadera

後輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

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