Osama Bin Laden: Dead Since 2002?

[Pachipro]

Ever since I saw the Obama late Sunday night special report stating that Osama Bin Laden was killed in a secret attack I have doubted every single word and have done exhaustive research in uncovering the truth of this deception on the American people.

Personally, I have always believed that he has been long dead. If not killed at Tora Bora as was said on the news here in the US at the time of the attack on Tora Bora, then dead of Marfan Syndrome (which he was diagnosed by US authorities as having) and/or the kidney disease he was suffering from.

I've believed this because 1) No one has EVER heard from him or seen him in person, nor has there ever been a video of him since before the attacks of 9/11. Sure we have seen ﾂ"videoﾂ" of him claiming that he was responsible for the attacks, but no one has ever been able to verify (other than the CIA of course) that it was his voice speaking or when the video was taken.



Not one shred of visible or physical evidence of him being alive has ever been produced other than a grainy voice tape that the CIA ﾂ"saysﾂ" was Bin Laden threatening the US in the years following 9/11. Has there been independent verification? No. There was no video of him at all after 2001. If I were him I would want to prove to the world and my followers that I was alive with pictures holding a newspaper or a video stating my anger at the US for their invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan or what have you. Not one word from him was ever produced after the uprisings in Egypt, Tunisia, Syria and Libya. You'd at least think that such a ﾂ"powerfulﾂ" terrorist leader would've at least said something! Nothing, nada, zilch!


2) If Bin Laden was so angry at the US, who created and supported him in the first place, that he took down the towers, thereby overpowering and outsmarting, with no technology whatsoever, the most powerful and most technologically advanced military force the world has ever known, he would've oversaw and carried out other attacks in and on the US since 2001 and to date not one has occurred. Sure, there are those gung-ho Americans who will say it was the superiority of our intelligence agencies that thwarted any attacks, but lets be logical here. A terrorist wanting to commit a suicide bombing can and would carry it out and no amount of intelligence in the world would be able top stop them or prevent it. And besides, our so-called Intelligence Agency failed to prevent the only terrorist attack on US soil in history. Give me a freakin' break!

3.) Fox News said he was dead. Madeline Albright said he was dead. PM Benazir Bhutto of Pakistan said he was dead (she was assassinated shortly thereafter). You can find all the links on Google if you want. I did.

4.) The White House has backtracked numerous times on the official story of the killing of Bin Laden. Turns out the picture in the ﾂ"war roomﾂ" was faked. They were not looking at the operation and why was Obama, the President of the United States, not in the main chair? Why was he off to the side with a jacket over his golf shirt? Could it be because he doesn't pull the strings? Where was Panetta, the head of the CIA, for such an important operation? Why was he not in the room?



Bin Laden did not throw his wife in front of him. He was not armed. He was not going for a gun; Obama and Hillary et al, did not see the actual killing because there was 25 minutes of "lost" video/interrupted transmission; next door neighbor said the person watching TV was not Osama, it was his neighbor (Akbar or Omar I forget which); the ﾂ"million dollar compoundﾂ" was not really a mansion; no pictures of any kidney dialysis machines anywhere in the pictures or videos nor were there any mention of doctors or nurses which a patient of his illness needs 24/7 etc., etc. Need I say more as there are a few other anomalies, but you can find them on the internet.

The point is why now when he has been dead for so long? Perhaps because Obama was under fire in proving he was a US citizen, high unemployment, a deteriorating economy, a failing US$? I don't know. It could be because he wants to be elected and had just launched his campaign and said he would raise a billion dollars but his poll numbers were the lowest of his presidency. This release would ensure he would do that and get re-elected as most of the sheeple would believe him and, sadly, they do. I cannot believe the number of so-called intelligent people who take blindly anything they hear or read in the controlled media.

However, the most important thing I have heard that firmly convinced me that this is all a hoax was an interview with a Dr. Steve Pieczenick, (Gastroenterologist and Harvard and MIT trained), Assistant Under Secretary of State under four presidents and Henry Kissinger, (the so-called puppet master of the US Presidents and leader of the push for a one-world government). Dr. Pieczenick was/is also the lead planner of Psychological Operations (PsyOps) for the US military which was instrumental in taking down the Soviet Union among many other major operations. Why this insider and PsyOps planner is coming out now and telling ﾂ"the truthﾂ" I will say later as I have my own opinions on why this man, who is active with the US military today, should come out now and blame Bush Jr, Rumsfield, and Cheney for the attacks of 9/11 and this hoax of killing Bin Laden. And it's not because he hates Obama or is a Republican. He knows the internal wars that are going on inside the government behind the government.


You can hear his interview in the following links. If you do not listen to the entire two interviews then please do not comment as he names names and gives the reasons for the attacks of 9/11 throughout all seven segments and in the following two segments, and he actually threatens President Obama and his administration against any other lies and hoaxes. Also, what is strange is that he has been on this show for four consecutive days and I believe I know why. However, if you do listen, please comment, whether you agree or not, as I am most interested in hearing opinions from all sides. There is a reason why this ﾂ"insiderﾂ" is coming out, naming names and making threats and I will nail it down as I have my suspicions.

May 3, 2011

(1/7)

(2/7)

(3/7)

(4/7)

(5/7)

(6/7)

(7/7)


Threat to Administration May 5, 2011 (Third Interview and most powerful)

(1/2)

(2/2)

Unfortunately this ﾂ"hoaxﾂ" by the present administration will further put the noose around the neck of the American people by the people behind the government and nation, taking away more of our freedoms with the false threat of terrorist attacks in the near future due to the killing of Bin Laden. There have even been reports that there will now be a ﾂ"no rideﾂ" policy on US trains as there is now legislation pending for body scans and pat downs for traveling on trains. Soon it will be for cars and then to enter a city or town, etc., etc.

If there is any threat to the US it is our debt and declining economy and devaluing of the US dollar and the systematic dismantling of the US. The only way to keep the US from defaulting and to keep our currency as the world reserve currency is to have perpetual wars. President Eisenhower warned us of this when he said, upon leaving office, ﾂ"Beware the US military industrial complex.ﾂ"


From the sinking of the Maine that precipitated the Spanish-American War, to the sinking of the Lusitania to get us into WWI, to the attack on Pearl Harbor to get us into WWII, to the Operation Northwoods plan to blow up a plane with no passengers and blame it on Cuba, to 9/11 to get us into the Middle East, to blaming Saddam Hussein for having WMD and participating in 9/11, to the killing of Bin Laden to perpetuate the wars in the Middle East, one cannot deny that the US has perpetrated these acts in the past to justify us getting into a war.


Before you flame me on the above items, please do your own research as there are government documents proving that they were all "false flag" attacks. I have linked to Operation Northwoods with US government documents for your information. The rest you can find on your own (as I did) as they are there. What do you think?

 

[Steve Red]

In that declassified Operation Northwoods plan the CIA wrote:

2. A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces.

a. Incidents to establish a credible attack (not in chronological order):

(1) start rumors (many). Use clandestine radio.

(2) Land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence" to stage attack on base.

(3) Capture Cuban (friendly) saboteurs inside the base.

(4) Start riots near the base main gate (friendly Cubans).

(5) Blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires.

(6) Burn aircraft on air base (sabotage).

(7) Lob mortar shells from outside of base into base. Some damage to installations.

(8) capture assault teams approaching from the sea or vicinity of Guantanamo City.

(9) Capture militia group which storms the base.

(10) Sabotage ship in harbor; large fires — napthalene.

(11) Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals for mock-victims (may be lieu of (10)).

b. United States would respond by executing offensive operations to secure water and power supplies, destroying artillery and mortar emplacements which threaten the base.

c. Commence large scale United States military operations.

3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms:

a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba.

b. We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. We could arrange to cause such incident in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular result of Cuban attack from the air or sea, or both. The presence of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The nearness to Havana or Santiago would add credibility especially to those people that might have heard the blast or have seen the fire. The US could follow up with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existent crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation.

4. We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement, also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.

5. A "Cuban-based, Castro-supported" filibuster could be simulated against a neighboring Caribbean nation (in the vein of the 14th of June invasion of the Dominican Republic). We know that Castro is backing subversive efforts clandestinely against Haiti, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, and Nicaragua at present and possible others. These efforts can be magnified and additional ones contrived for exposure. For example, advantage can be taken of the sensitivity of the Dominican Air Force to intrusions within their national air space. "Cuban" B-26 or C-46 type aircraft could make cane-burning raids at night. Soviet Bloc incendiaries could be found. This could be coupled with "Cuban" messages to the Communist underground in the Dominican Republic and "Cuban" shipments of arm which would be found, or intercepted, on the beach.

6. Use of MIG type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type planes would be useful as complementary actions. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce such fact. The primary drawback to this suggestion appears to be the security risk inherent in obtaining or modifying an aircraft. However, reasonable copies of the MIG could be produced from US resources in about three months.

a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.

b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will being transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident.

9. It Is possible to create an incident which will make it appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack.

a. Approximately 4 or 5 F-101 aircraft will be dispatched in trail from Homestead AFB, Florida, to the vicinity of Cuba. Their mission will be to reverse course and simulate fakir aircraft for an air defense exercise in southern Florida. These aircraft would conduct variations of these flights at frequent Intervals. Crews would be briefed to remain at least 12 miles off the Cuban coast; however, they would be required to carry live ammunition in the event that hostile actions were taken by the Cuban MIGs.

b. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly tail-end Charley at considerable interval between aircraft. While near the Cuban Island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. No other calls would be made. The pilot would then fly directly west at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who had performed the mission under an alias, would resume his proper identity and return to his normal place of business. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared.

c. At precisely the same time that the aircraft was presumably shot down a submarine or small surface craft would disburse F-101 parts, parachute, etc., at approximately 15 to 20 miles off the Cuban coast and depart. The pilots returning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched and parts of aircraft found.



After reading all that, how do you feel about the CIA?

Wake up people, the CONSPIRACY THEORY is that Osama and 19 arabs somehow caused WTC1 and WTC2 and WTC7 to be blown to dust. If you watch those buildings as they were blown up, and if you are honest with yourself, you will admit that explosives (and DEW) were used to destroy those buildings. Especially WTC7. Totally Controlled Demolition.

Look, it's simple, you were fooled into believing that SOME BAD ARABS used planes to kill a bunch of Americans for Allah. The truth is SOME BAD AMERICANS used drones and explosives to kill a bunch of Americans for Money & Power.

The absurd denial of reality is basically racist in nature: unconsciously most white folks who deny that 9/11 was an inside-job are thinking, "ARABS would do such a thing, but WHITE people like those in the pentagon would NEVER do such a thing."

If the Operation Northwood plan written by the CIA posted above doesn't prove to you that WHITE people like those in the pentagon WOULD do such a thing, then you are not being honest with yourself.

It doesn't matter what country you were born in, it doesn't matter what color body you were born in, when you discover someone from your country with your skin color has killed people, the honest thing to do is to have them arrested and tried.

Using guns to assassinate murder suspects without a trial (whether it be Osama, Cheney, or Zbigniew) is NEVER justified.

And using military to drop bombs on innocent men, women, and children, whose only crime was to have been born in a particular country, is NEVER justified.

Before reacting negatively to this thread (in which Pachipro has altruistically taken the time to lay out a lot of information which you simply weren't aware of up until now) take some time to cool off, collect your thoughts, do a little more research, and consider the possibility that you have been deceived by the CIA.

 

[Aino]

The absurd denial of reality is basically racist in nature: unconsciously most white folks who deny that 9/11 was an inside-job are thinking, "ARABS would do such a thing, but WHITE people like those in the pentagon would NEVER do such a thing."

If the Operation Northwood plan written by the CIA posted above doesn't prove to you that WHITE people like those in the pentagon WOULD do such a thing, then you are not being honest with yourself.

And using military to drop bombs on innocent men,women,and children, whose only crime was to have been born in a particular country,is NEVER justified.

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion,but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do. Samuel Huntington ~ [ Clash of Civilization ]

 

[Nuala]

I see a lot of this paranoia in older generations. My mom is one such person. You know how much she bought into the tea party nonsense? I once thought her interest in Coast to Coast AM was benign, but she's gone from listening to that to ranting about how the government is going to kill all older people. I'm not unaware of such theories surrounding 9/11, but how could I seriously consider them? Do you know how suicidal I already am? I feel that the coming years will be very bleak already, why would I add to that by giving into such paranoia?

I want to live my life under the radar. To spend it happily with my family is all that I want. With that said, good luck with this thread.

 

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Wow, this is quite a thread!
Pachipro I really admire your research work. I have read it several times.
Steve Red too, the CIA gives me the shivers.
Aino, I think that the colours of our skins are only skin deep, it is far more important what's under our skins, or how low can we go.
Thor, I am by far the oldest here. But it is true, the world is changing in the wrong direction. I am a born optimist, but I can't deny that we are destroying our world.
It is oil, oil, oil and weapons. I don't think that we can call it paranoia, it is more like the lowest mentality ever.
Pachiro You gave us all a lot of food for thought. It is good, honest and also brave to come out in the open. Thank you!!!

 

[Chidoriashi]

Wow, this is quite a thread!
Pachipro I really admire your research work. I have read it several times.
Steve Red too, the CIA gives me the shivers.
Aino, I think that the colours of our skins are only skin deep, it is far more important what's under our skins, or how low can we go.
Thor, I am by far the oldest here. But it is true, the world is changing in the wrong direction. I am a born optimist, but I can't deny that we are destroying our world.
It is oil, oil, oil and weapons. I don't think that we can call it paranoia, it is more like the lowest mentality ever.
Pachiro You gave us all a lot of food for thought. It is good, honest and also brave to come out in the open. Thank you!!!

This is off topic, but I always thought that it is really cool that though you lived like 60-65 years of your life before and without the internet, that you are one of the few people who have adapted to the times and are able to give us your thoughts from a different generation. Kudos.

 

[Steve Red]

Back to Pachipro's original point about OBL, these links include the official sources:

July 4, 2001 - OBL Hospitalized
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2001.html#July4,2001-OBL_hospitalized.

September 10, 2001 - OBL Dying
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2001.html#September10,2001-OBL_dialysis.

December 10, 2001 - OBL Died
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2001.html#December2001-OBL_dies.

December 13, 2001 - 1st Fake Fat OBL "I did it" Video Released
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2001.html#December13,2001-OBL_video.

December 14, 2001 - 1st Fake Fat OBL "I did it" Video Defended
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2001.html#December14,2001-Bush_scoffs.

December 15, 2001 - 1st Fake Fat OBL "I did it" Video De-Hoaxed
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2001.html#December15,2001-fake_tape.

December 26, 2001 - Old OBL Video (11-19-01) Released
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2001.html#December26,2001-OBL_video.

December 28, 2001 - Old OBL Video (11-19-01) Discussed
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2001.html#December28,2001-US_doubts_OBL_video.

April 26, 2002 - Rumsfeld "No OBL since Dec. 2001"
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2002.html#April26,2002-Rumsfeld_OBL.

February 1st, 2002 - Old OBL Video (11-25-01) Discussed
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2002.html#February1,2002-Bergan_OBL_aged.

October 29, 2004 - 2nd Fake "I did it" OBL Video Released 4 days before Election
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2004.html#October29,2004-OBL_video.

October 30, 2004 - 2nd Fake "I did it" OBL Video Helped Boost Bush in Zogby Polls
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/2004.html#October30,2004-OBL_video_boost.

So, Pachipro's original point (Obama using Osama's corpse for ratings) is true, IMO.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

I'm not going to flame anyone; I'll just say your case here isn't any more persuasive than some other paranormal or conspiracy posts I've seen you make, Pachipro. In fact, didn't you previously post the claim that 9/11 was a US government conspiracy?

Your opening paragraph shows that you didn't commence your "investigation" with an objective approach. You set out to find what you wanted to find, methinks. Here are a few beliefs of my own:

1. No one has ever produced a body, witness, or other objective evidence to show that bin Laden died before May 2011. If a person is last seen alive, then we should presume he remains alive, absent convincing evidence to the contrary.

2. Videos of bin Laden's rants were released periodically by al Qaida. You want them dismissed because only the CIA has verified them. That's your whole case on this point, far as I can tell. But what is your evidence that the videos were faked? Who were the actors, where were they filmed, who was involved?

3. Al Qaida first tried to blow up the WTC buildings in 1993; the scheme failed as the bombers were caught. Later unsuccessful efforts include the Underwear Bomber and the Shoe Bomber, both of whom failed. So we have a record of various al Qaida attempts to terrorist-bomb the US, with one major success. Given enough attempts, even an out-manned, under-gunned force can succeed once in a while.

4. Fox News is not the best authority, but they are NOT saying that bin Laden died prior to May 2011. Madeline Albright hasn't been involved in government since 2000; and anyway, I suspect you're misrepresenting her views too. Pakistani officials have all lied to us, too; they are the people who warned bin Laden when Clinton tried to get him with cruise missiles.

5. Your alleged motive for Obama to fake bin Laden's death is unconvincing. If that was the scheme, why not wait until closer to the election? By the time Americans vote in November 2012, the bin Laden episode will largely have been forgotten by voters, who will be focused on more immediate, domestic issues, like the economy.

6. Blogs are not authority for anything. One of your co-conspiracy-theorists would just as well cite your post here as authority.

 

[FrustratedDave]

Again, I'm just sayin...

debunking911.com

I have no idea on Osama Bin Laden being dead before this latest announcement.

 

[Steve Red]

RolandtheHeadless, isn't it true: that you believe that 9/11 was NOT a False-Flag Operation?

You, starting from that incorrect assumption, means you didn't commence your "investigation" with an objective approach.

When did you become convinced that the CIA exists for the benefit of Americans?
When did you become convinced that the CIA doesn't kill Americans for more Money?
When will you open your eyes to the fact that the CIA is the biggest Terrorist group?

If you had actually clicked the links above, you would have realized that every painful truth listed on that page comes directly from OFFICIAL mainstream sources.

Here, for those that still don't understand the reality that governments plan and execute False-Flag operations:

False flag - Wikipedia

The CIA funded, trained, and armed Osama Bin Ladin, a CIA operative. Truth hurts.
The CIA created and maintains Al Qaeda because this "rebel" group profits the CIA.
Every time these "rebels" commit another "rebel attack", the CIA gets a big bonus.

The CIA thinking is, "We need to start a war: who cares if over 3,000 Americans die."
The good-hearted CIA pawns at the bottom don't think this, the Top CIA Heads do.

And back to the OP's original point, the "ratings" turn-around that Obama desperately needed, was to counter this embarrassing scandal:



Oops, when using Adobe to forge a document, splicing together various layers from various scans, you MUST remember to flatten-the-various-layers at the end. Obama's forger forgot. D'oh!

But hey, no problem, to divert the average American from demanding impeachment over UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE OF BIRTH CERTIFICATE FORGERY, one can simply say, "Look, over here, check it out, we killed Osama! U.S.A., U.S.A.!" And thus, the birth certificate scandal is forgotten. Next subject....

Roland, learn what the word conspiracy means. You think 20 Arabs CONSPIRED to take down WTC, right? What you are pushing is A CONSPIRACY THEORY, it just happens to have the backing of the DoD and the media.

The unconscious assumption being held by most non-independent thinkers, is that: when accusing the DoD of planning and executing that false-flag operation on 9-11, "it's a conspiracy theory" but when accusing Arabs of doing something, "it's a conspiracy fact."

 

[Steve Red]

A picture is worth a thousand words, here are 3,000:

 

[Pachipro]

1. No one has ever produced a body, witness, or other objective evidence to show that bin Laden died before May 2011

And neither has a body been produced after May 2011. Only the word of the government and news media.

2. Videos of bin Laden's rants were released periodically by al Qaida. You want them dismissed because only the CIA has verified them.

Then please provide me with a link of a video released by Bin Laden after January 2002. I have been unable to find any and those that I do find are old archival footage.

3. Al Qaida first tried to blow up the WTC buildings in 1993; the scheme failed as the bombers were caught. Later unsuccessful efforts include the Underwear Bomber and the Shoe Bomber, both of whom failed.

Very true. They did try to blow it up by driving a van filled with explosives into the underground parking lot and that failed. Was Bin Laden behind it? Please provide me with links as I have been unable to find any for that time period of the early 90's.

Also, if you do your research and look before commenting, you will find out that both the Underwear Bomber and Shoe Bomber were both probably "false flag" attempts as you will discover that in both cases there is no way could the bombs have gone off from a match. Also, the Underwear Bomber was allowed access on the plane when he was clearly on the Do Not Fly List.You can read about it here and read about the meaning of False Flags here

I could provide you with more links that are actual fact, but if you were really interested in learning about both sides you would already have known this but, as you accuse me, you only look for and read and believe what you want to. Contrary to your opinion, and unlike you, I look at all sides and form my views and right now, as much as I hate to say it, the "official" story fails to hold water.

4. Fox News is not the best authority, but they are NOT saying that bin Laden died prior to May 2011. Madeline Albright hasn't been involved in government since 2000; and anyway, I suspect you're misrepresenting her views too. Pakistani officials have all lied to us, too; they are the people who warned bin Laden when Clinton tried to get him with cruise missiles.

Did I say they were or had said it? No. Fox News is a shill for the Neo Con Republicans and they are so transparent it's a joke. I am not misrepresenting Ms. Albright's views either. She said it and it is documented. Look it up if you're not too lazy or maybe afraid of learning a truth you dare not want to see or believe. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

5. Your alleged motive for Obama to fake bin Laden's death is unconvincing. If that was the scheme, why not wait until closer to the election? By the time Americans vote in November 2012, the bin Laden episode will largely have been forgotten by voters, who will be focused on more immediate, domestic issues, like the economy.

I didn't say or want you to believe it was convincing and I don't care if anyone is convinced or not. That is not my point. I am presenting other facts contrary to the official story as most reasonable and logical people do. This is the reason why I asked people like you not to comment unless you have listened to the links I provided by an actual insider of the US Government. No where do you reference Dr Steve Pieczenick, one of the masters of PsyOps for the US Military nor what he has to say; nor do you ask why I have my reasons for his saying what he does and his threats.

The reason, in my opinion, why they did it now is because Mr. Obama's ratings were in the toilet, the economy is dying, the dollar is dying, the country is dying and he just kick-started his bid for re-election where he said he would raise $1 Billion dollars. What better way to ensure that he'd receive this money in the short term and take peoples minds off the fact that our country is bankrupt?

6. Blogs are not authority for anything. One of your co-conspiracy-theorists would just as well cite your post here as authority.

Did I link to any blogs? This statement just proves that you have not listened to anything I linked to and just prefer to spew your opinions with nothing to back them up other what you are spoon fed my the major media and cannot think or reason for yourself. You are the epitome of the average person who believes what he/she reads/hears on major media and any other opinion or facts are just conspiracy. You probably haven't read any of the excellent links Steve Red provides either, backed up by verifiable facts. Instead, you prefer to say, "Don't confuse me with the facts! I have my own opinion and it is the correct one."

Look, I'm not asking you or anyone to believe anything I say. Look it up yourself before presenting your one-sided opinion, complete with links to verifiable sources. Everything I say can be verified through major media or official documents or I wouldn't believe it or post it. If I can't independently verify it, I throw it aside until I can. Too bad you can't do the same.

RolandtheHeadless, if you understood anything about what is going on in this country and where we are headed, you would understand, be suspicious, and investigate anything that may be a "false flag" to further take away more of our rights and freedoms which we are losing on a daily basis. However, if your post is any indication of how the average American thinks, and I believe it is, it is only a matter of time before we are a shell of the country we once were as the majority of Americans today have no idea of what our constitution says or how it is supposed to protect us from those who want to destroy it.

We are systematically being dismantled and destroyed and no one cares to acknowledge it as they are more concerned about Republicans vs Democrats when they are both in cahoots to change the direction of this country by undermining the constitution. Too bad you and others fail to see that.

As Abraham Lincoln said, "A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved -- I do not expect the house to fall -- but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other."

Unfortunately, we are divided against ourselves, half Repubs and half Dems, pointing fingers at each other while they both take more of your money and freedoms. I just hope I am not alive when this country finally dies as it will unless people like you wake up.

 

[Steve Red]

To restate your final sentence in a positive way, Pachipro: I hope you ARE alive when the majority of our fellow Americans finally wake up and restore America's constitution to keep this once-great country Alive!

 

[Steve Red]

PS - Frustrated Dave, I know you're a rational guy. Please, I beg you, LOOK at those earliest Pentagon photos, and ask yourself: could a Boeing 757 REALLY have disappeared into that tiny hole?

When I first saw the Pentagon's lack of plane AND the lack of sufficient entry-hole: that's when I woke up to the fact that the Pentagon lied to us, using drones and explosives.

If anyone here can honestly look at those 3 Pentagon photos above, and still claim that a Boeing 757 indeed hit there, then you have made your choice to deny a painful truth.

It's like a son of a murderer being shown undeniable photo evidence that his father committed murder replying, "But, but, I LOVE my father, there's no WAY he committed murder, this is all just a theory, those photos can't be real! My father is GOOD! He protected me my whole life. I support him no matter what you show me!"

The honest thing to say at this moment right now is, "Wow, I never saw those early photos of the Pentagon before. Damn, my father the head of the DoD DID plan and execute a false-flag operation. There is no excuse for this. My father must now be arrested and tried in a court of law by a jury of his peers."

 

[Steve Red]

Mukden Incident - Wikipedia
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/features/0007/01.htm

Japanese people admit that the Japanese Imperial Army committed False-Flag terrorism.
Can we, American people, admit that the American DoD committed False-Flag terrorism?

 

[Pachipro]

@Steve Red: We are getting off topic here as there are already a few threads relating to 9/11. Let's keep those debates there and this one on Bin Laden's supposed killing.. However, for the final post in relation to 9/11 and your belief that a plane could not have hit the Pentagon I present you with this interview with Major General Albert Stubblebine, former Commanding General of the United States Army Intelligence and Security Command. You can watch the video interview here
When so many insiders come out and speak like they do, you have to sit back and take notice and not dismiss it.

I see a lot of this paranoia in older generations. My mom is one such person. You know how much she bought into the tea party nonsense? I once thought her interest in Coast to Coast AM was benign, but she's gone from listening to that to ranting about how the government is going to kill all older people. I'm not unaware of such theories surrounding 9/11, but how could I seriously consider them? Do you know how suicidal I already am? I feel that the coming years will be very bleak already, why would I add to that by giving into such paranoia?

I want to live my life under the radar. To spend it happily with my family is all that I want. With that said, good luck with this thread.

It's sad you believe the way you do Thor. It just goes to show that the future of this country is not in the hands of the younger generation.

Perhaps we, the older generation, are "paranoid" because we understand what is going on as we remember the US of A the way it used to be. It wasn't always perfect and it had it's flaws, but we were far freer than we are today. Even in the heyday of numerous plane hijackings and even a bombing here and there, there were still no body scanners, groping of your privates, or no-fly lists. You were innocent until proven guilty.

Today there is no more habeus corpus and you are considered guilty until proven innocent. The governments' "See something, Say something" campaigns on billboards, commercials, check out counters at Wal-Mart, etc is reminiscent of the thought police in WW II Germany and Japan. Rat on your neighbor if you believe they are being unpatriotic. It just shows how far we have fallen and people like you are too young to even realize what we older people are talking about as this is considered "normal" for you just as you were conditioned.

In previous days and in many cultures, older people were looked up to as a vault of experience and wisdom. Today they/we are looked at as kooks and conspiracy wing nuts when they point out how far this country has fallen and the media and schools perpetuate this with their socialist one-world government views/agendas. The Dumbing Down of America has truly taken hold as was planned nearly 100 years ago. This woman was a Senior Policy Adviser in the Office of Educational Research and Improvement under the first Regan Administration.She blew the whistle when she discovered that the curriculum of schools was being controlled and directed in a way not conducive to what should be taught. Watch the video please and learn something.


The Tea Party was the one last hope, I believe, for saving this country, but they have been compromised by the neo-Cons and derided by the media and thus will have no power to make the changes they wanted. The only other hope is Ron Paul, but "they" will see to it that he labeled a nut and kook by the media and both Dems and Repubs.

You are unaware of any of the theories surrounding 9/11 because that is the way you have been conditioned and trained, like a sheep, to not question what you are told in school or read/hear on the major media. As I mentioned to RolandtheHeadless, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" Look over here like you are told while we destroy your freedoms and take more of your rights and put you so far in debt you or your children will never get out.

You owe it to yourself Thor and future generations behind you to learn about what is going on around you before you become a victim yourself. Sadly, it sounds like you already are. If you want to live your live "under the radar" as you say, and be happy with your family, that will not happen unless you are educated and informed on what is going on around you and the world and the country. Listen to your mother, she knows what shes talking about as she sees and senses what is going on as do most older people. Elizabeth van Kampen above also knows what it's like to live under repression as she lived it in WW II. If you can't listen to her you'll listen to no one.

"See no evil, Hear no evil, Say no evil" will be playing right into their hands and it is just where they want and have you. Perhaps as you get older you'll understand, but by then perhaps it'll be too late.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"Can we, American people, admit that the American DoD committed False-Flag terrorism?"

Even if we admit that for argument's sake, it doesn't logically lead to the conclusion that bin Laden died in 2002.

Incidentally, bin Laden released a number of videos after that date. I'm sure you'll just claim that those videos were faked. Conspiracy fans operate in the same way as Christian fundamentalists, who claim the fossil and DNA evidence is fake in order to deny evolution and preserve their literal interpretation of the Bible.

By claiming the evidence is fake, you render your position invincible to logical challenge or reasoned debate.

 

[Pachipro]

"For arguments sake"? Did I read that correctly in the face of actual government documents slapping you upside the head?

Did I claim Bin Laden's videos were fake? NO. Some people are so afraid of the truth and prefer to keep their heads in the sand as they believe their fairy tale world will continue going on as it should. For them there is no help as they fail to even consider another side or perhaps, gasp, the real truth. Much like christian fundamentalists. I care not if you believe it or not, but failure to even look at it shows the flaws in your argument.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"'For arguments sake'"? Did I read that correctly in the face of actual government documents slapping you upside the head?"

You missed the point of my words. I'll concede whatever you wish as a preamble. "False-flag terrorism"? Whatever. You simply aren't making a logical case. Just because there may be precedent, doesn't mean it happened now.

Your argument is equivalent to the cops arresting someone with a criminal history, just because a crime was committed. After all, this guy committed crimes in the past, so therefore it must be his crime now, right?

NO -- the cops still have to prove their case, with good evidence. In fact, in a US court, evidence of past crimes wouldn't normally even be admissible at trial, simply because the proposition is so illogical, but nonetheless appealing to jurors lacking in critical thinking skills.

Incidentally, if a mostly-hollow, aluminum-bodied airplane collides with a steel-reinforced concrete structure of the solidity of the Pentagon, a small hole at best is what we should expect to see. Most of the plane would have been blown to fragments.

But after all, maybe the flying saucers did it.

 

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Bin Laden mission has WWII parallel ??
Written by
Mike McKenzie

http://www.pressconnects.com/articl...2/105180304/Bin-Laden-mission-has-WWII-parall

 

[Steve Red]

the cops still have to prove their case, with good evidence. In fact, in a US court

Just as it would be UNJUSTIFIABLE for the police to fire missiles into and drop bombs onto apartments in Compton because "some murderer suspects are hiding somewhere in this neighborhood"...

SO TOO it is UNJUSTIFIABLE for the military to fire missiles into and drop bombs onto apartments in the middle-east because "some murderer suspects are hiding somewhere in this neighborhood"...

if a mostly-hollow, aluminum-bodied airplane collides with a steel-reinforced concrete structure

Just as the aluminum Boeing 757 would NOT have been able to so fully-penetrate the outside wall of the Pentagon and disappear into the building as the DoD claims it did...

SO TOO the aluminum Boeing 767s would have in reality NOT even been able to so fully-penetrate the outside walls of the WTC1 & WTC2 and disappear into the buildings as the Official Footage claims they did.

Go ahead, say the North Tower footage looks FAKE to you, please say so, it would prove to me that you are rational, because ANY rational person who looks frame-by-frame at the entry footage HAS to admit that a plane could NOT enter the North Tower smooth-as-butter like that.

The truth is the actual hijacked planes were landed when they "disappeared" from FAA radar, the passengers WERE killed in hangars by black-op mercenaries, a missile hit the pentagon and explosives were used there, drones hit WTC1 & WTC2 and explosives were used there, various CGI images of planes were used, and finally WTC7 (the HQ location of this evil psy-op) was demolished with explosives as well.

Heavy question Roland, honestly, what would you say to Pachipro and I and every other human who has invested energy in writing to you over the years, if tomorrow a top commanding officer you trust pulls you aside and admits, "Look, this is need-to-know: the truth is there WAS an internal-coup at the agency, there WAS a false-flag op committed here on American soil, the most atrocious operation ever, we're currently figuring out WHICH traitors within the DoD are going to be tried at the military tribunal for the deaths of over 3,000 American Civilians and over 10,000 American Soldiers, and eventually those traitors who placed the explosives and pushed the buttons on 9-11 are going to be hung."

If someone in the military you TRUST tells you the truth, what would you say to us then?










Seriously, this is a what-if question. If YOU yourself decide that you were wrong up until now, if you YOURSELF decide that you were fooled by some very intelligent very evil people within the agency, what WOULD you say?








Please reply seriously, in a heart-felt way. :12:

 

[Steve Red]

Hi Pachipro, I just belatedly noticed right now (after posting my most recent post on this thread) your request to not post anymore 9-11 stuff on this particular thread since the original topic is OBL.

Totally understood, makes perfect sense, and I apologize for having pulled the topic so far away from the original topic.

OK, let's let that final 9-11 post of mine above stand as it is, and I promise not to post any more 9-11 stuff on this thread.

Actually, I'm going to take a break from posting altogether for awhile, it's simply a drain on my energy.

Still, it was a fun run, and I hope we probably opened a few eyes.

Sincerely,

Steve

PS - Roland, I respect you as a human simply trying to speak the truth as you know so far, as we all are.

I guess there is no need for you to reply out-loud to my question. Internally is fine. See you around. :12: