Need help identifying this artifact

[Joe Pepper]

Im looking for help to answer few or any questions about what this may have came off, what the lettering says. Or if this story I was told as a kid is at all possible? I was given this item from my dad who received it 25+ years ago from an older man who claimed his brother Cut it off a Downed burning Japanese plane during Pearl Harbor. The under side is made of some sort of canvas I believe. The top has a protective coating paint or cover That has the painting of the sun with lettering. Thank You for your time. Joe Pepper

 

[mdchachi]

Im looking for help to answer few or any questions about what this may have came off, what the lettering says. Or if this story I was told as a kid is at all possible? I was given this item from my dad who received it 25+ years ago from an older man who claimed his brother Cut it off a Downed burning Japanese plane during Pearl Harbor. The under side is made of some sort of canvas I believe. The top has a protective coating paint or cover That has the painting of the sun with lettering. Thank You for your time. Joe Pepper

The only letter I see is ザ (ZA) which doesn't mean anything by itself. There's no other lettering on it?

 

[Joe Pepper]

No unfortunately that's the only letter Or writing that's on. I was hoping what it may say would be the biggest clue of determining what it may be or if it's what it was claimed to be..

 

[mdchachi]

No unfortunately that's the only letter Or writing that's on. I was hoping what it may say would be the biggest clue of determining what it may be or if it's what it was claimed to be..

Probably your next best bet is to find somebody familiar with Japanese Zero's or other military hardware to learn if it was common to use such canvas-backed signage.

 

[Grandpa Frank]

There were 29 Japanese planes shot down at Pearl Harbor , many landed in the ocean. Most if not all seem to be metal covered as fabric coverings went out in the early 40's. Most of the pictures I find show the red ball on planes as around 18 to 24 inches in diameter. Not to say your article is fake , it could have been the cover to a seat in a plane or something. The stitching does resemble some shown in pictures. I Googled "Japanese loses at Pearl Harbor" and there were pictures and info there.

 

[Mike Cash]

With a bit of clicking around

Attack on Pearl Harbor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you can see photos of the three types of Japanese aircraft used in the attack and easily see that this didn't come from any of them. In those days planes sometimes had fabric covered control surfaces in addition to their mostly metal fuselages, but as you can see none of them had the rising sun emblem on the control surfaces (ailerons, elevators, rudder).

I would be more likely to suspect it was torn from the awning or sign outside a Japanese-owned business in town

 

[Joe Pepper]

With a bit of clicking around

Attack on Pearl Harbor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you can see photos of the three types of Japanese aircraft used in the attack and easily see that this didn't come from any of them. In those days planes sometimes had fabric covered control surfaces in addition to their mostly metal fuselages, but as you can see none of them had the rising sun emblem on the control surfaces (ailerons, elevators, rudder).

I would be more likely to suspect it was torn from the awning or sign outside a Japanese-owned business in town

Thank you for your time and effort. Even know at this time not still not knowing where it originated from . At least I can eliminate a few possibilities.

 

[Hoge]

It looks like a part called 羽布(fabric) shown on this page as 零戦の補助翼の羽布 (fabric on the ailerons of Zero)
大日本帝國陸海軍 その他の軍装品・資料

 

[Mike Cash]

It looks like a part called 羽布(fabric) shown on this page as 零戦の補助翼の羽布 (fabric on the ailerons of Zero)
大日本帝國陸海軍 その他の軍装品・資料

Whoever laid out that never-ending scroll-fest should be taken out and shot. I never did find what you were talking about. Could you link to a specific image, please?

 

[Joe Pepper]

Thank you for everybody's on going helpful info and tips. As I'm still searching ... Found few pic that had some similarities that might help. The material between the two and pic with sun how paint is flaking looks like it's aging the same as the one I got. Found many pic of the tail end of diff Japanese military planes with a variety diff painted symbols etc. any new info will be appreciated

 

[Hoge]

Whoever laid out that never-ending scroll-fest should be taken out and shot. I never did find what you were talking about. Could you link to a specific image, please?

The page stupidly forbids right click, so I can't get the direct link to the pictures. You could in-line search
"零戦の補助翼の羽布". Yes, he/she should be taken out and shot.
It seems to contain the same image as Joe Pepper san has shown us.

 

[Hoge]

http://cb1100f.b10.coreserver.jp/3139.gif
Here is the link.

 

[Glenski]

How big is this piece of material anyway?

 

[Joe Pepper]

How big is this piece of material anyway?

I'm not able to get exact measurements. But will when I get home. I'm guessing on top of head apx 3 1/2 ' long and about 2' feet wide apx

 

[Mike Cash]

I keep searching and I keep not finding any Pearl Harbor images with planes having a roundel that fits entirely onto a fabric covered control surface and/or one that has a standalone katakana of any sort at all.

 

[Glenski]

I agree with Uncle Frank that the stitching is a bit of a curiosity. I'm no authority of any sort, but it seems that such marks would be on seats or backpacks or something. I spent a long time looking for the flag decal coupled with the ザ marking to no avail. Nothing I found suggested what it stood for, either. Keep in mind that ザ as you see it written here (with the curly marks in the upper right corner) is how the letter is positioned for reading. In the scan you show, it is upside down. So, either the entire artifact was held in place opposite to the orientation that you photographed, or it was wrapped around something with the stitching, or perhaps the flag decal was on the outside of a wing and the ザ was visible to the pilot for some reason so he could read it. I suppose it could have been reversed, too, so that onlookers would read the ザ, but no plane design that I have Googled shows anything approaching that sort of thing, whether on wing or tail.

Perhaps the discussion group at this site would know more.
J-aircraft.com Main Page

EDIT:
Pictures of zero cockpits show absolutely bare metal seat frames for the pilot, and the parachutes are light brown, so I doubt this is something used to cover them. The apparent large stitch marks might indeed suggest it was on the outside somewhere after all, and the only reason I presume that is that large stitch marks might indicate huge fasteners necessary for exterior of the aircraft.

EDIT2:
This is very hard to read and not in color, but perhaps underside markings like that artifact could be found on this chart.
Here is another source for all J planes used by the Army Air Service. You'd have to investigate each plane, and look for naval planes elsewhere.

 

[Mike Cash]

Details on the markings of all three types of planes used from each of the carriers.

真珠湾攻撃隊のマーキングについて調べてみた - 1/144ヒコーキ工房

 

[Joe Pepper]

Thank you for everyone's time that is and that helped me with my search. I was able to confirm it was The same material that covered a section of a Airplane. The protective layer on front side was a substance they called "dope" . As I'm still in search to find a connection to where it originated and to find anyone who might have a idea what the writing meaning "ZA" may be linked to.

 

[Glenski]

Show us where you found this info so we can evaluate it more. The only use for the word dope that I've found is on model planes.

 

[Grandpa Frank]

From all the reading I've found , the stitching and coating show it is from an airplane. I can't picture using the bright white paint for a war plane. Hawaii had many airplanes used for crop dusting back in the 30's and 40's and most were probably fabric covered. My guess is it's from a private plane and the marking was something to do with the company name or the pilot's nickname. Unless there are some more tiny markings or writings on what you have , I think you can only guess at what you have . Finding an expert who can tell you more would probably be difficult , just not enough there to go on.

 

[Mike Cash]

Show us where you found this info so we can evaluate it more. The only use for the word dope that I've found is on model planes.

It was a common term during the days of fabric covered airplanes. I've read and heard it lots of times throughout my life.

 

[Mike Cash]

From all the reading I've found , the stitching and coating show it is from an airplane. I can't picture using the bright white paint for a war plane. Hawaii had many airplanes used for crop dusting back in the 30's and 40's and most were probably fabric covered. My guess is it's from a private plane and the marking was something to do with the company name or the pilot's nickname. Unless there are some more tiny markings or writings on what you have , I think you can only guess at what you have . Finding an expert who can tell you more would probably be difficult , just not enough there to go on.

That sounds like the most plausible explanation. There are no images anywhere that show Japanese warplanes of the time with either a rising sun roundel that fit entirely onto the control surface of a plane or that included any writing.

Part of the reason I suspected it carne from a sign or awning is that I strongly suspect the ザ was part of a transliterated business or club name that started with "The". If there were a plane owned by a Japanese(-American) business or flying club it wouldn't be out of the question to find both the rising sun emblem and the word "The" on it.

At any rate, there's no way in hell this carne from a plane shot down during the Pearl Harbor attack and really no way of even knowing if it actually came from Hawaii or not.

 

[Joe Pepper]

Here is just a couple.

Show us where you found this info so we can evaluate it more. The only use for the word dope that I've found is on model planes.