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Navy flag

jeeplover

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this one was also translated 8 years ago anything new or things they missed
青木君 贈 山田

To Mr. Aoki, presented from Yamada. Only family name was given.

祝入団 團 is an old style for 団. Congratuations to 入団.

Entering into the army was sometimes expressed as 入営. It came from 兵営 (hei-ei), army (permanent) barracks. Perhaps 入団 refers to joining the navy, because navy basic training unit was called as 海兵団 (kaiheidan).
期七世報国 Be ready to die and be born seven times for devoting your life to the nation.
As a whole messages on this flag are very fanatic among flags introduced in this thread.
No date is given, but he expression 大東亜戦 appears in messages. It must be presented after Dec 1941.
 

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Toritoribe

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Entering into the army was sometimes expressed as 入営. It came from 兵営 (hei-ei), army (permanent) barracks. Perhaps 入団 refers to joining the navy, because navy basic training unit was called as 海兵団 (kaiheidan).
That's an informal wording. Formally, 入営 is used both for Army and Navy.

正式には陸海軍とも入営という。ほとんどの兵が海兵団に入って最初の教育を受けたため、俗に海軍に入ることを入団といった

海軍に入ることを俗に入団するともいう。正しくは陸海軍ともに入営である。航空隊や一部の兵は海兵団に行かず教育している

Furthermore, 入団 is also used for organizations whose names end with 団, whether Army or Navy, thus, for instance 近衛師団に入団 "to join the Imperial Guard Division" is possible.
 

jeeplover

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ok here is my biggest question why are the translations different. the people who did the original is also japanese he is a professor or something he is on axis history forum. he helped out for years said he was tired of answering redundant questions so he will no longer help with japanese items. could it be a age thing ? please help me understand this. thank you
 

Toritoribe

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No, that's not an age thing. People were just confusing even in that time. It's better you think that you can't judge whether the recipient of the flag joined Army or Navy just by the words 入営 or 入団, in my opinion.
 

mdchachi

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Japanese in general often depends on contextual clues for understanding. And when the context is specialized or historical, it requires extra knowledge about the context to get the translation right. And sometimes it still may not be certain so one translator will pick one way and another may pick another. As an example in English if you saw the phrase "joined the service" you may make some assumption about what service it is and translate it as "joined the army" or something.
 

jeeplover

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ok that makes sense thank you i understand a better now. i thought it might be something like a change in the language from then to now.
this thought is because i was told many young people in japan can not read the kanji on the flags. is this true or was he saying something else that maybe i misunderstood?
 

mdchachi

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ok that makes sense thank you i understand a better now. i thought it might be something like a change in the language from then to now.
this thought is because i was told many young people in japan can not read the kanji on the flags. is this true or was he saying something else that maybe i misunderstood?
It's true. Handwriting can be hard to read. Similarly, many young people in the U.S. now can't read cursive writing either. And if you don't know the vocabulary it's that much harder. I'm in a genealogy forum and I often see people trying to parse death certificates and the like. For example "myocardial infraction" or something can be hard to read (especially in a phsyicians writing) and even harder if you're not even familiar with the term.
You've probably also experienced that people can't tell you some names definitively. That's because the same characters can have multiple pronunciations. And the correct first name is whatever the parents assigned. The correct last name is whatever it was historically for that family. Sometimes it's subtle like Nakagawa vs Nakakawa. But sometimes it's completely different like Ken vs Takeshi.
 

jeeplover

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I know what you mean I thought is was craze when i learned that kids were not learning cursive i thought how do you sign a signature, documents i have had to fill out ask you to print and sign I guess the new generation will just print print. i myself have a very hard time reading cursive from the war years it is very beautiful but at the same time hard to read. this is the very reason every few years i will post the same thing on different sites because different people have different insight. i want to thank you guys very much for this because it seems i am starting to see it is not the others were wrong they just looked at it different. this is very educational to me.
 
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