My first text

David Hallgren · 26 Mar 2004

Here goes, my first written japanese!

こにちは！
私のなまえはダヴィヅ・ハッルグレンです。
にじゅうにさいです。スウエーデンのヨテボリに住んでいます。
私のいちゅうのおんなのなまえはマリン・ボグレルトです。
私はチャーメース大学の学生です。
どうぞよろし(ku)おねがいします。

I know it's very short and kind of only lists a few facts about me, but still, one has to start somewhere, right? If you spot any errors, besides the (ku) since ・doesn't seem to work, or have ideas on improvement, please post them. BTW, is this the right forum to keep posting in when i write longer texts to get response? Finally I would just like to say again that I've updated my website, David Hallgren's Japanese Page, and I'm still interested in more response on it as well. A vocabulary test will be done this weekend.

PaulTB · 26 Mar 2004

David Hallgren said:
Here goes, my first written japanese!

こにちは！

こんにちは

私のなまえはダヴィヅ・ハッルグレンです。

デイヴィッド・ハルグレン

にじゅうにさいです。

22さい

スウエーデンのヨテボリに住んでいます。

スウェーデン (What's ヨテボリ from?)

私のいちゅうのおんなのなまえはマリン・ボグレルトです。

いちゅうのおんな looks like 死語 to me. Try 彼女.

私はチャーメース大学の学生です。
どうぞよろしくおねがいします。

Ditch one or two of the 私's.

NANGI · 26 Mar 2004

Konnichiwa David Hallgren-san!

こにちは！
私のなまえはダヴィヅ・ハッルグレンです。
にじゅうにさいです。スウエーデンのヨテボリに住んでいます。
私のいちゅうのおんなのなまえはマリン・ボグレルトです。
私はチャーメース大学の学生です。
どうぞよろし(ku)おねがいします。

At first, your Japanese is a very good. There are not errors both of words and grammar.
But this sentence has only a fault, courtesy.
I'll try to explain about your text.

こにちは！

Japanese greeting is "Konnichiha" correctly. It is "こんにちは" in Japanese. But "は" is pronounced "わ" in this case. It is "Konnichiwa" in Japanese pronunciation. But you must write "こんにちは" when you write in Japanese.
You wrote "こにちわ". It is not correct. But I don't think that is not serious error. Because Japanese pronunciation "こんにちは" is very unclearly at times. I think it sound "こんちは" or "こにちは".
But please write "こんにちは" when you write. :note:

私のなまえはダヴィヅ・ハッルグレンです。

"David Hallgren" is "デビッドハルグレン" or "デイヴィッド・ハルグレン" in Japanese pronunciation. But I think "ダヴィヅ・ハッルグレン" is better if it is nearer to original pronunciation.

にじゅうにさいです。

You should write Kanji or Arabic numerals when you write a numeral. "にじゅうに" is a "二十二" or only "22".

スウエーデン

In Japan, the Japanese write "スエーデン" or "スウェーデン" in Katakana. Of course "スウエーデン" is not error, but I think "スウェーデン" is better in Japan.

私のいちゅうのおんなのなまえはマリン・ボグレルトです。

Japanese are very shy with love. And expression of love or lover is a very difficult. At first, you must not use "おんな" in your utterance. Because this word has a contempt meaning. You should use "じょせい" in this case.
And "いちゅう" is used in one sided love. If you fall in love with each other, you should use "つきあっている", "私の付き合っている女性のなまえはマリン・ボグレルトです" in Kanji. But "わたしの彼女の名前は、マリン・ボグレルトです" is better, because simple.
And "いちゅう" is a stuffy, "おもいびと" or "すきなひと" is more friendly. "私の好きな女性のなまえはマリン・ボグレルトです" is better if you in one sided love.

私はチャーメース大学の学生です。
どうぞよろし(ku)おねがいします。

This sentence is a perfect!
The result
こんにちは！
私のなまえはダヴィヅ・ハッルグレンです。
22さいです。スウェーデンのヨテボリに住んでいます。
私の好きな女性のなまえはマリン・ボグレルトです。
私はチャーメース大学の学生です。
どうぞよろし(ku)おねがいします。
I think this sentence is better.
NANGI

Elizabeth · 26 Mar 2004

NANGI said:
Japanese greeting is "Konnichiha" correctly. It is "こんにちは" in Japanese. But "は" is pronounced "わ" in this case. It is "Konnichiwa" in Japanese pronunciation. But you must write "こんにちは" when you write in Japanese.
You wrote "こにちわ". It is not correct. But I don't think that is not serious error. Because Japanese pronunciation "こんにちは" is very unclearly at times. I think it sound "こんちは" or "こにちは".
But please write "こんにちは" when you write. :note:

こんにちは何木さん！
でも、'こんにちわ'は使えているいつも場合もないのでしょうか？

PaulTB · 26 Mar 2004

Elizabeth said:
こんにちは何木さん！
でも、窶?#12371;んにちわ窶?#12399;いつも書き方がある場合もないのでしょうか？

Aha. Again with the cunning edit button ;-).
If you mean what I think you mean then I'd put that as

でも、「こんにちわ」の書き方を使う場合もあるでしょうか。

Elizabeth · 26 Mar 2004

OK--take two. Is this at least baseline functional for everyone?

こんにちは何木さん！
でも、こんにちわは使えているいつも場合もないのでしょうか？

I wanted to say : is there never an occasion when you can use the non-particle wa? The problem must have been in my use of single quotes. It's too early in the morning to be dealing with this already....

PaulTB · 26 Mar 2004

Elizabeth said:
こんにちは何木さん！
でも、こんにちわは使えているいつも場合もないのでしょうか？

I wanted to say : is there never an occasion when you can use the non-particle wa?

That's roughly what I thought you meant - but I'm highly dubious about
いつも場合もない

でも、こんにちわは使えているいつも場合もないのでしょうか？
But is there also not an always occasion to be able to use 'konnichiwa' I wonder?

If you drop the いつも

でも、こんにちわは使えている場合もないのでしょうか？
but is there also not an occasion to be able to use 'konnichiwa' I wonder?

then it looks a little better to me, but I think the もない should be positive not negative.

でも、こんにちわは使えている場合もあるのでしょうか？
but are there not also occasions where you are able to use 'konnichiwa', I wonder?

I'm not saying my interpretations are necessarily correct - but I will say that いつも場合もない has zero google matches, and いつも場合 only 11.

Elizabeth · 26 Mar 2004

PaulTB said:
That's roughly what I thought you meant - but I'm highly dubious about
いつも場合もない

でも、こんにちわは使えているいつも場合もないのでしょうか？
But is there also not an always occasion to be able to use 'konnichiwa' I wonder?

If you drop the いつも

でも、こんにちわは使えている場合もないのでしょうか？
but is there also not an occasion to be able to use 'konnichiwa' I wonder?

then it looks a little better to me, but I think the もない should be positive not negative.

でも、こんにちわは使えている場合も・るのでしょうか？
but are there not also occasions where you are able to use 'konnichiwa', I wonder?

I'm not saying my interpretations are necessarily correct - but I will say that いつも場合もない has zero google matches, and いつも場合 only 11.

Your instincts may well be more reasonable, itsumo + neg. isn't a precise translation of never, anyway, and I was even vacillating on its position whether it should go at the beginning or middle. I was simply trying for something a little more forceful given that は seems to be rarely used by Nangi, myself or others even in the Nihongo chat areas of this very forum. .

PaulTB · 26 Mar 2004

Elizabeth said:
I was simply trying for something a little more forceful given that は seems to be rarely used by Nangi, myself or others even in the Nihongo chat areas of this very forum. .

How about ...

「こんにちわ」は厳密にいうと間違ったが、頻繁に使ってるんじゃないか。

Elizabeth · 27 Mar 2004

PaulTB said:
How about ...

「こんにちわ」は厳密にいうと間違ったが、頻繁に使ってるんじゃないか。

そうですね。私の立場から、どんな使い方には間違いだかどうかと言えないと思いますけど。誰にも、sukoしでも間違ったと言うつもりではなかったですね。
例文を見る限り、多分「は」を使うことはほとんど・るそうです。

でも、わは砕けた書き方のような場合でしょう。文法的にsukoし間違った表現は会話の流れの中で自然に使えてるでしょう。

David Hallgren · 27 Mar 2004

ありがとうございます
Thank you everyone for all ideas and suggestions. As NANGI thought the katakana I wrote for my name is very close to the swedish pronounciation of it. いちゅうのおんな was the only word I didn't know before writing the text so I searched JDIC for "girlfriend" and used the first word I found . From now on I will use 好きな女性 instead, how would I write that in hiragana?
This response has surely made me inspired and I will post again after having read a few more chapters in my げんき books.

Ewok85 · 27 Mar 2004

すきなじょせい

彼女（かのじょ） is a good word for girlfriend. 彼女がいますか？

Elizabeth · 27 Mar 2004

Ewok85 said:
すきなじょせい

彼女（かのじょ） is a good word for girlfriend. 彼女がいますか？

It pains me to say it, but ガールフレンド and ボーイフレンド are by now also well established as words in the language (in all the dictionaries, online translation services, etc).

NANGI · 27 Mar 2004

Konnichiwa Elizabeth-san, PaulTB-san!

is there never an occasion when you can use the non-particle wa?

I think Elizabeth means "「こんにちわ」という言葉を書あことは許されないのでしょうか？". And this sentence has metaphorical meaning, "どうして南木さんは「こんにちわ」という言葉を使うの？」".
Yes, I use "こんにちわ" or "Konnichiwa" in this forum. This greeting are not correct strictly. But why use this words? There is a sad reason...

I joined Anime forum in US before and I have used correct greetings "Konnichiha" and "こんにちは". But I was advised frequently "Hey Nangi, Konnichiha is not correct. It is Konnichiwa correctly!". Of course this advise has error. But I thought, Japanese beginner has trouble with difference between pronunciation and writting, especially "は、わ" ,"お、を" and "え、へ". I think the most important matter is a mutual understanding but not correct words or grammar. And I began to say "こんにちわ" or "Konnichiwa". And after, I didn't get the same advise.

I don't think "こんにちわ" or "Konnichiwa" are not serious error. Because we can communicate and understand each other smoothly even incorrect words, especially in foreign forum that are many Japanese beginner. But you should use correct greeting when you talk with Japanese or join forum in Japan.

NANGI

PaulTB · 27 Mar 2004

NANGI said:
I joined Anime forum in US before and I have used correct greetings "Konnichiha" and "こんにちは". But I was advised frequently "Hey Nangi, Konnichiha is not correct. It is Konnichiwa correctly!".

Hmm, what is the Japanese proverb for 'teaching your grandmother to suck eggs' ?

That said which romaji system has both chi for ち and ha for the particle は ? (Although frankly I don't know if I've met anybody who strictly follows a specific romaji system.)

Elizabeth · 27 Mar 2004

PaulTB said:
That said which romaji system has both chi for ち and ha for the particle は ? (Although frankly I don't know if I've met anybody who strictly follows a specific romaji system.)

The Hepburn system is set up that way, with the "ha" being its only real drawback for Western students that I can see. Now of course there's "wapuro" romaji, but that was developed in the '50's....While Nihon or Kunrei (?) shiki (ti, sya, etc), with their more stripped down pronunciation keys as it were are supposedly more intuitive to native speakers. These quibbles of nuance largely boil down to personal preference and how one was first taught so can't be taken too seriously, except for things like "wo" and "ha" which actually get beginners using them

PaulTB · 28 Mar 2004

Elizabeth said:
The Hepburn system is set up that way, with the "ha" being its only real drawback for Western students that I can see.

There seem to be at least two, probably three variants that are called 'Hepburn'. In WWWJDIC (
WWWJDIC on Japanese writing.
) the following is given as 'Hepburn' romaji.

Kyou, watashi wa su-pa- de pan wo kaimashita.

Note
1. Long vowel in きょう shown as 'kyou'.
Depending on where I look, for 'hepburn' romaji this should be either
kyo (long vowel not indicated)
kyoh (long o shown by oh)
kyou (long o has either 'ou' or 'oo' depending on kana used)
or _
kyo (- over the o. Can't be typed easily. ^^

2. Use of wa for the particle は
3. Use of wo for the particle を (an unusual combination - most places use either 'wa, o, e' or 'ha, wo, he' but not combinations of the same).
4. Use of - for long vowels in katakana words.

Elizabeth · 28 Mar 2004

NANGI said:
I joined Anime forum in US before and I have used correct greetings "Konnichiha" and "こんにちは". But I was advised frequently "Hey Nangi, Konnichiha is not correct. It is Konnichiwa correctly!". Of course this advise has error. But I thought, Japanese beginner has trouble with difference between pronunciation and writting, especially "は、わ" ,"お、を" and "え、へ". I think the most important matter is a mutual understanding but not correct words or grammar. And I began to say "こんにちわ" or "Konnichiwa". And after, I didn't get the same advise.

なんて面白い話です。確かにアメリカ人は根気・い国民ですよね。 Tutorさんも
「こんばんわ」をよ・使っているけど。「こんばんは」という表現には意味が二つだから、「Ｇｏｏｄｎｉｇｈｔ」には「わ」との書き方が自然になると言う理由のかな？

NANGI · 28 Mar 2004

Konnichiwa PaulTB-san! Elizabeth-san!

Hmm, what is the Japanese proverb for 'teaching your grandmother to suck eggs' ?

It is the "Shaka ni Seppou" in Japan. "Shaka" is the Buddha, "seppou" means "lecture Buddhism". "Shaka ni Seppou" means "lecture Buddhism on the Buddha".

Romaji system is confusing, because it is not exactly. An instance "Tokyo". "Tokyo" is "とうきょう" in Hiragana, and it is "Toukyou" in Romaji exactly.
And I type Japanese in roman input on computer, but there are two Romaji sometimes, "ちょ" by "cho" or "tyo", "し" by "shi" or "ci", and etc... I misspell in Romaji at times "Matigaimasu"... oh, sorry "Machigaimasu" correctly.

NANGI

PaulTB · 28 Mar 2004

Read this post in Unicode (UTF-8) It's the only way I can get the ﾃｴ's to show up properly.

NANGI said:
I misspell in Romaji at times "Matigaimasu"... oh, sorry "Machigaimasu" correctly.

Of course 'matigaimasu' is correct. In kunreishiki and nipponshiki anyway. ^^;
The first link I quoted has now been updated
Quote "
莉頑律, 遘√・繧ｹ繝ｼ繝代・縺ｧ繝代Φ繧定ｲｷ縺・∪縺励◆.
In Hepburn romaji this is "Kyﾃｴ, watashi wa sﾃｻpﾃ｢ de pan o kaimashita." (In my preferred form of romaji it is "kyou, watashi wa su-pa- de pan wo kaimashita", as it is closer to the Japanese and will work properly in a word-processor.)"
Seeing as nobody in the western world uses 'pure' Hepburn romaji system I think you should be able to type however you like and say you're using 'modified' Hepburn.

Elizabeth · 29 Mar 2004

NANGI said:
Konnichiwa PaulTB-san! Elizabeth-san!

It is the "Shaka ni Seppou" in Japan. "Shaka" is the Buddha, "seppou" means "lecture Buddhism". "Shaka ni Seppou" means "lecture Buddhism on the Buddha".

Without a "don't," though, in 釈迦に説法 it could also be used in reverse, as a disclaimer or negating condition ? For instance, "I'm sure you already know this, but......" or "Although I may be teaching you to suck eggs...."

NANGI · 29 Mar 2004

Konnichiwa Elizabeth-san!

Elizabeth said:
Without a "don't," though, in 釈迦に説法 it could also be used in reverse, as a disclaimer or negating condition ? For instance, "I'm sure you already know this, but......" or "Although I may be teaching you to suck eggs...."

The Japanese don't use in that case as "I'm sure you already know this, but......" In this case, the Japanese say "Wakatteiru to ha Omou kedo, ..." always.
And reply "Urusai, Wakatteru!". It means "Shut up, I know!".

NANGI

Elizabeth · 29 Mar 2004

NANGI said:
Konnichiwa Elizabeth-san!

The Japanese don't use in that case as "I'm sure you already know this, but......" In this case, the Japanese say "Wakatteiru to ha Omou kedo, ..." always.
And reply "Urusai, Wakatteru!". It means "Shut up, I know!".
NANGI

OK--thanks Nangi-san !

And the first person can reply back へたな鉄砲も数打ちゃあたる

My first text

New comer

Manga Psychic

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Manga Psychic

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Manga Psychic

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Manga Psychic

先輩

New comer

先輩

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先輩

Manga Psychic

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Manga Psychic

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Manga Psychic

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