moving on

[Wouter]

I hope this is the right place to post my message and I hope you'll understand how I feel.
Maybe some of you remember my post about the woman I am madly in love with.
For those who don't know or don't remember what I'm talking about, I'll explain shortly what's going on.
Last summer I went on vacation on my own to meet some chatfriends of mine. One of the friends I met there was very dear to me. We spent a lot of time together and we experienced many wonderful moments together.
After some time I started to realise that I was in love with this woman.
As time went by, my feelings for her grew stronger, but I didn't have the courage to explain my feelings to her. As the end of my stay was drawing near I started to feel very uncomfortable when I was close to her because I knew she already has a boyfriend. One day I went out with a couple of other friends to do some shopping, but very soon they realised I was not myself.
While they were laughing and making fun, I was silent and I didn't heed what was going on around me. All I could think about was her and what I could do with this situation. I started to feel really bad because I knew I had to leave soon. I spent the last day of my trip together with her and we had a wonderful time. As the time of my departure was drawing near, I realised it was too late for me to tell her anything about my feelings.
I can still see myself standing on the escalator to the train platform, watching her as she passed out of sight. Slowly tears started to run down my cheek. If I think back to this moment I can't understand why I didn't do anything at that time. If I would have known how I would feel in the future about this, I would have dropped all my baggage and run down the escalator to her. I would have hold her, embraced her, kissed her and told her "I cannot live without you" I would never have left her side, although that was impossible for me. Of course I didn't do all these things. How could I be so blunt to myself? I called her from the departure gate at the airport and at the end of the conversation I could finally manage to say "I love you" She didn't reply to that. On the airplane I started to realise how much I missed her and I realised that perhaps I would never see her again. I felt so bad and I cried almost all the way home.
When I got back home, I talked with her every day over the internet and over the phone. I tried to explain her how I felt, but most of the time our conversations ended with an argument or even a fight because I was pushing her too much all the time. I just couldn't accept that she already has a boyfriend and that she because of this cannot return my love. I still can't accept that. You may think I am a total idiot for not moving on and letting her go, but that's just the way I am. I really can't help it. I have never loved anyone this much. For me she is just the perfect woman. Since I know her I can't imagine my life without her.
Some people say I'm crazy, others say I'm just way too addicted, but the truth is that this situation is killing me.
I have a severe depression for some months now and I need professional help and medication to calm me down and make my life bearable.
Two weeks ago she went on a trip abroad to visit her boyfriend. During this time I couldn't contact her, though she had prommised me to answer to my e-mails, but she didn't. I thought she didn't want to talk to me anymore and that she was trying to forget me. Because of this I felt so bad and I really wanted to end my pain. I wanted to end my life.
This was not only because of my feelings for her, but also due to many other problems I have in my life. I will not talk about this right now.
This impossible situation was just the last straw.

I have to go now. When I get back home, I will continue my story...

 

[Brooker]

I had a very similar situation with a Japanese girl. I would have dropped everything in my life to be with her because she was everything I'd ever wanted. In the end I realized that it could never work and I had to just let it go.

Don't embrace the pain. Don't make the situation worse by being overly dramatic about it. I know such feelings are hard to deal with when they're new to you. Learn from the situation and bide your time until another amazing girl comes along. They don't come along very often, so when they do you have to act, which you have, but after that you just have to bow out gracefully if it's not meant to be.

 

[okaeri_man]

the ancient greeks had 7 words for love, the japanese have 3, and english pretty much only has 1. the love you feel for this woman is not love - well, at least not a good love. i hope one day you will realise this. and in all seriousness you're not going to realise this if you kill yourself...

i can't define what it is exactly but i've been through it myself - japanese girl, get along well, spend long time apart, think about her everyday, she ends up getting a boyfriend, what happens next? in my case i went back to japan to see her. half of me told me this was crazy, but the other half told me i had to, otherwise i would forever be wondering.

you know what i felt when i met her again? confusion. discomfort. not love. i spent a year thinking about her, thinking i loved her... for what? sure, she was (and still is) pretty, and we got along well each other. i tried - we went to the city on a date, we kissed and embraced, but sure enough it didn't work out.

POINT: you are essentially in the same situation as i was. i guarantee you if you went to japan now and met her, you would feel uncomfortable and confused. i guarantee you despite this you would still end up kissing and embracing her anyway, but when you do you would realise trying to be in love with someone who doesn't love you back is like trying to make out with J-Bot. i guarantee you the best thing to do is just move on.

she ignored your emails, she's moved on. this doesn't mean she's a bad person, it just means she's a strong person. you should learn from her.

 

[Mimmy_08]

Wouter, Im very sad for what happen..but dont worry I know you can move on..

I have faith in you,

Just dont forget Im here to help you..be strong...

 

[Elizabeth]

Wouter, one thing I'm wondering is whether there are there any other things going on in your life besides her ? The best advice I can give, from hard-won experience, is that most people feel extremely uncomfortable with the responsiblity of being the entire focus of someone else's life, particularly after a few day together no matter how close it may have seemed at the time. If you have anything else to fall back on I'd recommend giving you both a bit of breathing room by concentrating on that for a time before possibly getting back in touch again.

I know how hard that can be without the security that you and she will ever work out, but it will be absolutely impossible if you continue to smother her like this.

 

[kirei_na_me]

I agree with Elizabeth 100%.

From what you have told me about this, Wouter, it seems you are pushing her away by your actions. I've told you this before. I think Japanese people in particular are turned off by people who act desperate. Making many accusations, being manipulative, asking too many questions, phoning constantly, making threats, etc. is something that Japanese people do not like. I don't think anyone likes it, but many Japanese people cannot tolerate that behavior. Japanese people, in general, rely on trust and trust alone. They're not much on highly emotional outbursts.

You just need to face reality. She is a lot older, she is in love with this other guy(which she has told you herself), she won't answer your calls more than half the time, you do nothing more than argue when you do finally talk to her, she is in Japan, etc. etc. There are many more girls out there. How many times have people been in love and thought that person was the only person, only to find another that they loved much more and who loved them in return? You are selling yourself short, Wouter. You're spending time and effort on someone who doesn't love you as much as you love them and you deserve more than that. Can't you understand that?

Of course, this isn't all you. Your 'friend' should have never led you on like she did. She was supposedly in love with this other guy and called herself his girlfriend, but yet she had a romantic fling with you. That was very selfish. She made you believe she loved you too and played with your emotions. Evidently, she was lacking self esteem or something and you came along and filled a void at the time. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Anyway, I think you know how I feel about the situation. I just wish you could move on and find something better. You deserve that.

 

[Fantt]

As a man who was in a similar situation, the only thing I can say is that the pain goes away after you find a more sensible woman. One thing that helped me was that I got into a very intense, purely physical relationship a few months after having my heart crushed (lasted for about a month, but woooo, boy!). That's probably not good advice, but it sure helped take my mind of the heart-ache. About a year later I met my more sensible wife. And it's been happily ever after since.

At 35, it seems silly how incredibly intense my emotions were. I felt like I had been completely and utterly destroyed. I fell into a deep dark depression. I know what the pain feels like, but I also know that you'll get over it.

 

[Wouter]

Thanks for the replies! I will now continue my story...

As I was saying, I had the desire to end all of it, but when I went out of the house I came to the conclusion that I couldn't do it. I was too afraid and I still have some friends and a family who hopefully care about me.
So I couldn't do it, but I also realised that there was something seriously wrong with me. That's why I asked for professional advice. I could tell everything about the situation about my love for this woman and my other problems in life. At the end of my story, my advisor adviced me that it's probably best to try to get over her and try to have limited contact with her.
She also adviced me to talk about my problems with as many people as possible, so that's what I'm doing now.
Since she is back from her trip, we have talked very little, but whenever we were talking we always strayed into an argument or even a fight.
I always start talking to her with the best intentions, but for some reason many things she says hurt me so deeply. So I can't help it but getting angry and push her all the time. Another thing she often does is giving me clues about her feelings or about her boyfriend, but when I ask her to tell me more about it, she refuses. She says things like "it's none of your business" or "I will tell you when I feel like telling you" This really hurts me. It's like she doesn't even want me as a good friend or she doesn't trust me. I on the other hand tell everything to her, even things I don't tell to anyone else.
I think every healthy relationship takes two. So if she keeps holding secrets for me, how can we be true friends?
She also said that my behavior scares her lately. I can believe that. If I was her I would be scared as well probably.
She also tells me I am so young and have limited experience, but I think that's no point here. Ok, she's older and probably has some more life experience, but that doesn't mean I don't know what love is.
I want to do what is best for our relationship and I want to get over this terrible feeling, but I don't want to lose her, I can't forget her. I love her too much and as far as I know myself and understand my own feelings, my love is true. What I really want is to be best friends with her and in the meanwhile wait for the day she can return my love, even if my waiting is in vain.
I am just wondering: how can I do this? How can I be her friend and love her at the same time?
She never wants to lead the conversation. She always let the choice of topic to me and I really can't help it but start talking about my feelings for her. That is why we have this argument all the time.
Another thing I want to mention: I have already planned to visit her again this winter. I have spent my last money on air tickets and my stay there, there is no way I can go back.
My question now is: What can I do? Is there a positive end to this situation possible? I really don't know how I can move on...

I want to thank you for your understanding and for your help...

 

[Fantt]

I never contemplated suicide even at the depths of my depression. I hate to say it, but there's no magic pill that will make the pain go away. The only thing that will make what hurts better is time. At 19 you're not to young to know pain and love, but you are too young to really appreciate the march of time. It may be nearly impossible to accept, but the fact that you had any sort of relationship with this woman indicates that future relationships are possible as well. I promise that it's not the end of the world.

My advice is for you to drop all contact with your previous love. It will be hard and painful, but in the end it's what's best for you. I had to finally come to the painful realization that my ex-girlfriend couldn't possibly be happy with me constantly bugging the hell out of her. I realized that if I really loved her, I could only want what was best for her, and part of that was me no longer being part of her life. Man, it hurt like hell and it was so hard to accept, but that was the first step towards making things better. Maybe it was easier for me because I moved about 1000 miles away and resolved not to call or harass her any more. It was so hard. Really, really hard because I had defined myself and my reality as always having her in it. But I kept thinking that if I loved her then I had to do it, anything else would be out of spite and wouldn't make her happy.

I also resolved to find another girlfriend, and that helped considerably too.

You're really young Wouter. Never quit giving life a second chance.

 

[kirei_na_me]

I'm with Fantt. I think you need to stop all contact with her. That's the only way you'll be able to move on. It's going to be difficult, but it needs to be done. From what I know, you can't be friends with her. It's either all or nothing, and it appears nothing is the obvious choice in this situation.

I've been through all this before too, and on both sides. I've been pestered to death by a suicide-threatening ex boyfriend and I've been the one to do the chasing(not to the extent of the former, though). Neither side is pleasant. As a matter of fact, being on either side is pretty much hell. It does not last, though. It's all temporary, if you let it be. You have to find within yourself to move on and let it all go. After you make that decision, it will take time, but the whole situation will be on its way to becoming a distant memory.

 

[Elizabeth]

POINT: you are essentially in the same situation as i was. i guarantee you if you went to japan now and met her, you would feel uncomfortable and confused. i guarantee you despite this you would still end up kissing and embracing her anyway, but when you do you would realise trying to be in love with someone who doesn't love you back is like trying to make out with J-Bot. i guarantee you the best thing to do is just move on.

she ignored your emails, she's moved on. this doesn't mean she's a bad person, it just means she's a strong person. you should learn from her.

Although it gets to the point at times where pursusing someone with limited results is so mentally draining it's hard to come up with honest reasons to like, much less love, the person and the only reason to keep in touch is so you don't have to face the embarrassment of admitting a mistake by being so obsessed in the first place. At least that has been the hardest part for me, in fortunately much less mild cases than Wouter's.

 

[jieshi]

wouter man! how are you? (actually you have already established that)

I was in a similar sitaution about three months ago. What I realised is that if you love someone you care more about their happiness then your own. Love is not selfish, and it is kind. Now don't think that I am suggesting that you do not love this girl lol (what sort of jerk would I be if I did that?) but you also need to think about if you truly love this girl then you will be willing to let her go, move on with your life and let her move on with hers. I found that because I loved her (and I told her what i am about to say) that I understood that she was in love with another guy and I had to live with that, i couldn't change it. but when it came down to it her happiness mattered more to me than my own happiness and I just wanted her to be happy in the end.

Maybe you should take another trip back to Japan (not to see her but) and just get into the social scene over there as I am sure that you would meet a japanese girl very quickly, who I am certain you will like. goooooood luck!

 

[Brooker]

okaeri_man wrote...

in my case i went back to japan to see her. half of me told me this was crazy, but the other half told me i had to, otherwise i would forever be wondering.

Wow, that's exactly what happened with me. Didn't know that was such a common situation. Although it didn't work out, I'm glad I went to see her because I, like you, didn't want to spend the rest of my life wondering.

 

[okaeri_man]

Wow, that's exactly what happened with me. Didn't know that was such a common situation. Although it didn't work out, I'm glad I went to see her because I, like you, didn't want to spend the rest of my life wondering.

well, i don't know about common
but yes, even though it didn't work i made the most of it, japan is a great place.

I am just wondering: how can I do this? How can I be her friend and love her at the same time?

can't.

Another thing I want to mention: I have already planned to visit her again this winter. I have spent my last money on air tickets and my stay there, there is no way I can go back.

why? why you do this? why wouter why? this isn't moving on. this is the opposite of moving on. the topic of this thread is "moving on". you made the thread, you should be moving on, but you're not moving on ☝

 

[Elizabeth]

She says things like "it's none of your business" or "I will tell you when I feel like telling you" This really hurts me. It's like she doesn't even want me as a good friend or she doesn't trust me. I on the other hand tell everything to her, even things I don't tell to anyone else.
I think every healthy relationship takes two. So if she keeps holding secrets for me, how can we be true friends?

A certain distance is commonly kept in Japanese relationships. My boyfriend doesn't even want me to write every night and would shut down completely, too hurt for words, if I even hinted at this level of emotionality or stalking as described here. It is absolutely beyond belief and all reason that I could even dream of treating him like that. So consider yourself fortunate that she has let you get away with it thus far, Wouter, but if you sense an impending crash please don't let it get that far....