Mitai confusing me

[pengu]

Hello.
Ive been thinking about the following example for quite a while:
Ive heard people say "betsujin mitai" which with my leet japanese skills I can translate to "betsujin" --> another person, and "mitai" --> looks like. So "(he) looks like another/a different person"
I can imagine it used for when someone gets a new haircut or something that changes their visual appearence(?), but can it also be used when speaking of how someone changed their general behavior?
I guess that when a person changes his lifestyle, it affects his physical actions more or less. So can "mitai" actually be used in both cases (inner and outer actions)?
If mitai is not used to express "inner" things, then what is?
Also.. what kanji is used to write mitai? I could imagine it would be the same kanji as "to see", but ive never seen "mitai" it written (dont read much japanese).

 

[Toritoribe]

So can "mitai" actually be used in both cases (inner and outer actions)?

Yes. You can use "mitai" for "inner" things.

Also.. what kanji is used to write mitai? I could imagine it would be the same kanji as "to see", but ive never seen "mitai" it written (dont read much japanese).

"Mitai" as "looks like" is always written in kana. There's no kanji for it. Although "mitai" actually originated from the verb "miru; to see," the kanji one would be interpreted as "to want to see" in these days.

 

[pengu]

Nice to get that off my chest!

Thank you very much!

 

[Elizabeth]

Hello.
Ive been thinking about the following example for quite a while:
Ive heard people say "betsujin mitai" which with my leet japanese skills I can translate to "betsujin" --> another person, and "mitai" --> looks like. So "(he) looks like another/a different person"

Not only "looks like" but in other ways, too. Which gets to "seems like," "is like" resembling, similar to, etc. Do you understand the use of 様（よう）だ？ Then mitai can be considered a more casual version of that.

 

[LukeSettle]

I have a question on this.
I remember reading somewhere that its rude to say either
おいしいみたい
OR
おいしそう
I don't remember which one it was, or is it both?
ごめん for the stupid question.

 

[undrentide]

I have a question on this.
I remember reading somewhere that its rude to say either
おいしいみたい
OR
おいしそう
I don't remember which one it was, or is it both?
ごめん for the stupid question.

おいしいみたい (personally it sounds a bit awkward, still it is valid and people may use it under certain context) or おいしいらしい (which sounds more common/natural) is the impression the speaker gets from someone else, while
おいしそう is the feeling the speaker got himself.

If you say このケーキはおいしいみたい/おいしいらしい, it is not clear whether you think (or feel) the cake looks delicious, you're stating just the information you got from someone else.
If you say このケーキはおいしそう then you see the cake and thinks it looks delicious.

 

[Elizabeth]

I have a question on this.
I remember reading somewhere that its rude to say either
おいしいみたい
OR
おいしそう
I dont remember which one it was, or is it both?
ごめん for the stupid question.

It must be おいしみたい。 i adjectives that drop the final i to combine with -sou and make a single word implies guessing at an outcome of something (Oishisou ! : That looks as if it will be delicious).

-Mitai is very different in Japanese by saying something looks/seems/appears like X, in this case to be oishii (but may not be so tasty itself). More like doesn't make sense than rude, though...:gohan:

 

[undrentide]

It must be おいしみたい。 i adjectives that drop the final i to combine with -sou and make a single word implies guessing at an outcome of something (Oishisou ! : That looks as if it will be delicious).

You're right about ～そう, but in case of みたい, just add みたい at the end without any conjugation.

おいしい： おいしそう、おいしいみたい、おいしいら しい
さびしい： さびしそう、さびしいみたい、さびしいら しい
いたい： いたそう、いたいみたい、いたいらしい

 

[Elizabeth]

You're right about ～そう, but in case of みたい, just add みたい at the end without any conjugation.

おいしい： おいしそう、おいしいみたい、おいしいら しい
さびしい： さびしそう、さびしいみたい、さびしいら しい
いたい： いたそう、いたいみたい、いたいらしい
｢

Oh, yes, that is right. I knew the "na" was dropped before mitai but forgot about final i. So there is no "oishi mitai..."

 

[Amigo]

Mitai vs You vs Rashii vs Sou vs Darou - Argrggr...

I've studied the differences amongst them, but never managed to master it.

I'll do a new attempt...

As far as I know, Mitai implies something you deduce based on your own experience:

Kono konpyuuta no tsukaikata wa kantan mitai/na you desu.
This computer seems to be easy to use. (I checked it beforehand)

Miati and You are exactly the same, but mitai is more colloquial, right? :?

Tanaka San wa mou sensei to hanashita you desu.
It seems that TanakaSan has already talked to the proffesor.

Sou da implies guessing at an outcome of something as ElizabethSan said.
Fukuzatsu sou - it seems complicated (I have the impression that it's complicated....)
Ano kooto wa takasou desu.
I have the impression that that coat is expensive.

You cannot use "Sou da" with nouns. In that cases you'll need darou, rashii or you
"Sou da" has the same meaning as "darou", but "rashii" and "you" have slight different meanings.

On one hand, "Sou da" and "Darou" are conjectures based on the impression of what you are looking at.

"Rashii" on the other hand, is a conjeture based on something that the speaker has heard or read.

Miyazawa San wa kekkyoku kaisha wo yamenai rashii desu.
Apparentely, finally MiyazawaSan won't leave the company.

"You da" is a deduction based on one's experience.

Marude haru no you desu ne!
It's as if we were in spring, isn't it!

If there were something wrong, I'll be pleased to be corrected

 

[LukeSettle]

Thanks guys!
Isnt there also おいしいそうだ for "I hear that its delicious"?

 

[Amigo]

That's right.

おいしそう and おいしいそう are different. The first one means "it seems...何何" whereas the other means "I've heard that...何何"

 

[Elizabeth]

"Sou da" has the same meaning as "darou", but "rashii" and "you" have slight different meanings.
On one hand, "Sou da" and "Darou" are conjectures based on the impression of what you are looking at.

I guess you seem to be talking about the conjecture -sou da added to adjectives and verbs to indicate a personal, immediate primarily visual impression, that may or may not be shared by anyone else. (V-masu-stem sou da = 'it looks like...'). But that information is actually based only on first hand observation, often of another person's state of mind, and is therefore much less confident than what you need for "darou" or "deshou." I cannot say "Genki deshou," for instance, to you and have it mean the same as "Genki sou desu" (You look happy).

"Rashii" on the other hand, is a conjeture based on something that the speaker has heard or read.

Rashii is not only hearsay quoting what has been read or heard but also often based on visual and/or first hand impressions (conjectural). It can have connotations similar to both you/mitai, but usually more uncertain, (rashii = weaker than) and conjectural sou da (rashii = stronger than) but I think ようだ、みたい, らしい are basically interchangable in many circumstances. Too complicated, really, with too many competing scenarios and forms, grammatical usages, nuances to convey, etc, to get a feel for them all in a single discussion.

"You da" is a deduction based on one's experience.
Marude haru no you desu ne!
It's as if we were in spring, isn't it!
If there were something wrong, I'll be please to be corrected

You asserts first-hand information garnered from objective facts or personal impressions, from which the speaker makes a reliable deduction. Which incidentally means it sometimes carries the result of a more evidence-based, logical thought process than mitai that is more natural for expressing more a straight resemblence between two things.

 

[Elizabeth]

おいしいみたい (personally it sounds a bit awkward, still it is valid and people may use it under certain context) or おいしいらしい (which sounds more common/natural) is the impression the speaker gets from someone else, while
おいしそう is the feeling the speaker got himself.

If you say このケーキはおいしいみたい/おいしいらしい, it is not clear whether you think (or feel) the cake looks delicious, you're stating just the information you got from someone else.
If you say このケーキはおいしそう then you see the cake and thinks it looks delicious.

So is there normally any difference then between おいしいらしい and おいしいそう？ おいしいらしい I imagine could express more of a personal inference based on information and knowledge surrounding that food. (It seems like/Apparently it would be delicious, from what I've heard).

Whereas おいしいそう doesn't involve the speaker's reasoning, but is more a direct retelling of what they have heard from other sources about that specific cuisine particularly.

 

[Amigo]

Thank you for your enlightenment, Elizabeth San.

It's very difficult to master all those nuances.
This is the situation in which your only resort is to think in Japanese, what is to say, to go and live there for a while.

 

[undrentide]

So is there normally any difference then between おいしいらしい and おいしいそう？ おいしいらしい I imagine could express more of a personal inference based on information and knowledge surrounding that food. (It seems like/Apparently it would be delicious, from what I've heard).

Whereas おいしいそう doesn't involve the speaker's reasoning, but is more a direct retelling of what they have heard from other sources about that specific cuisine particularly.

Er, sorry if it's my misunderstanding, but my explanation is on the difference between おいしいらしい and おいしそう while you're talking about the difference between おいしいらしい and おいしいそう?
If so, there's not much (big) difference between おいしいらしい and おいしいそう（だ）, both do not involve the speaker's opinion, it's just hearsay.

 

[Elizabeth]

Er, sorry if it's my misunderstanding, but my explanation is on the difference between おいしいらしい and おいしそう while you're talking about the difference between おいしいらしい and おいしいそう?
If so, there's not much (big) difference between おいしいらしい and おいしいそう（だ）, both do not involve the speaker's opinion, it's just hearsay.

No, I was talking about おいしいらしい and おいしいそう。But now that you mention it... おいしいらしい could be interpreted as both information from other sources (what the speaker has heard etc) OR something deduced from evidence they actually saw first hand (that it looks delicious) ?? I know らしい is supposedly "closer" to hearsay than よう、but not unusually more informed by opinion than just a passing along of heard observations （おいしいそう）、too.


Which explains why it isn't a favored word in newspaper headlines and I so often conveniently forget to worry about myself.

 

[Toritoribe]

おいしいらしい could be interpreted as both information from other sources (what the speaker has heard etc) OR something deduced from evidence they actually saw first hand (that it looks delicious) ??

おいしいらしい without any explanations regarding the "evidence" is used only for "hearsay," as undrentide-san explained.

こんなに行列が並んでるなんて、よっぽどおいしいらし い。

In this case, the source of the guess is not the dish itself. Basically, おいしいらしい as the speaker's own impression can't be used when s/he actually see it.
.