Mercury threat rising in dolphin meat

[Kyoto Returnee]

Because you disregard cultures and people who have a tradition eating whale meat. Just that there are so many threads on the evil Japanese whaling is racist while there is not one mention of Japanese beef farming for instance.

If you are a vegeterian why is it not worse to kill 1,000,000 cows than 1000 whales a year?

Serious, my wife is Japanese and I'm not disregarding cultures..

Japan (as a country) has a not so famous history which tends to stick out somewhat, so I guess anything perceived as evil fits in the minds of some automatically, I think that is ignorance, not racism, although personally, I am not thinking about it.

I am focussing purely on the whales..

I guess you could also say it's a cultural opinion to think about whales as Australians do, although I am not getting into cultures at all as it then turns into a racist slanging match.

Don't you think a majority of Japan's population couldn't care less and don't eat whale meat?

I don't think their is much exposure towards beef farming in Japan, that's probably why.

As for killing the amounts of cows VS whaes, I don't think it's better either way, especially if it's a vegetarian doing it.

 

[centrajapan]

Japan (as a country) has a not so famous history which tends to stick out somewhat

Australian history is also famous for sticking out doesn't it not?

I don't think it's better either way, especially if it's a vegetarian doing it.

So it is not worse to eat whales than cows then.

 

[Chi65]

Thinking about the mercury will cause more harm. The next time you try whale meat Chi think about the mercury. You'll probably die of heart attack due to stress before the mercury gets to you.

I am very far from any heart attacks, as doctors just lately pointed out, don't you worry
you seem to be far more stressed. . .

 

[Chi65]

Because you disregard cultures and people who have a tradition eating whale meat. Just that there are so many threads on the evil Japanese whaling is racist while there is not one mention of Japanese beef farming for instance.
If you are a vegeterian why is it not worse to kill 1,000,000 cows than 1000 whales a year?

You still have not gotten the points at all with your mind fixations, tics, so to say.. . .

It has nothing to do with disregarding a culture.

And we are on the whale topic, not on the cow topic after all.

 

[Rose Selavey]

I think the most interesting thing with the high levels of PCB's in cetaceans is that meat which has very high levels of mercury is being sold as 'safe whale meat'. It has been assumed for a long time that seafood was safe and good for pregnant women and children being called 'brain food'. Now it is understood that the pelagic species of fish are not safe for children or pregnant women. I wouldn't put my child at risk, as I'm sure thousands of Japanese and Norwegian mothers would also put their child's health first.

Being anti-whaling is not racist, just as being pro-whaling is not racist. Racism is being singled out and abused because of your race, not the action that you are doing. Clubbing a baby seal to death for its fur or killing a joey for fun is wrong no matter what nationality you are.

 

[Chi65]

Some simply don't want to see this, since the PR machinery was, and probably still is, so strong. . .thats the problem.
Without all the poison it was good food before indeed, but that time is simply over. And who ignores this, will be far from safe. And thats a fact.
It does not happen in Japan only, and the contamination of the oceans is not getting less, in contrary. Weird, but true.
BTW, CJ is banned again. . .

 

[Rose Selavey]

That is so true, chi it is only going to get worse. Is CJ banned from the forum?

 

[Chi65]

Yep, he went far over the top. . .(that post is deleted now)

 

[Rose Selavey]

Doh, I missed it, sometimes I get to see them if I'm quick enough.

 

[Chi65]

It was there only for very short time anyhow. Now we can talk without irrational flamings, much better!

 

[butakun]

Serious, my wife is Japanese and I'm not disregarding cultures..

<OFFTOPIC>
I hear this line a lot, but not sure why this is even relevant. My wife is of a different race, culture, religion, but I don't think that makes me automatically immune from being a bigot, I can be just as disrespectful to her culture as anybody else. Just my thought. (Please note that I'm not calling you a bigot, not at all)
</OFFTOPIC>

Anyway, you raised an interesting point here and I wanted to respond to it:

Don't you think a majority of Japan's population couldn't care less and don't eat whale meat?

I agree with you. You are probably right. I don't care for whale meat, but if I was given a choice, I might still support whaling, simply because I have never seen a convincing argument against banning whaling altogether.

But what is being discussed in this thread is an important issue. Mercury poisoning is an issue very very close to the hearts of many Japanese, from the memory of two Minamata outbreaks the kids all learn in school. Mercury poisoning from sea food has long been well documented (at least in Japan) and Japanese government makes an enormous effort ensuring the sea food safety in this regard and publishes extensive information on risks to pregnant womens, etc. Tuna is known to be especially high on mercury.

This discussion on dolphin meat mercury content is very important, no doubt about that, but that still cannot be a reason for banning whale meat. It would be a reason for stricter regulation on the distribution of dolphin meat.

 

[Chi65]

The government obviously did NOT do enough, also, because they are involved in the pro-whaling. thats exactly the point.
Who allows to sell such meat to schoolchildren despite knowing, its dangerous, even supports this, lacks very basic responsibility.

 

[pipokun]

The government obviously did NOT do enough, also, because they are involved in the pro-whaling. thats exactly the point.
Who allows to sell such meat to schoolchildren despite knowing, its dangerous, even supports this, lacks very basic responsibility.

You don't know how much whale meat dishes the kids ate, or what the govenment did caused another troubles before...

Or I should say that you did not know what the government did, though I don't know what you mean by "enough".
Please define it...

ﾆ鱈ﾆ停?愴陳?胆ﾆ辰窶堙遺?堙??ｰﾂｿﾅ?i窶ｹ}窶版ｽ ﾂ絶?ｦ窶ｹﾃ｢窶敖ｭ窶｢\窶堙?"窶｢窶披?｢]窶敕ｭﾅ?Qﾂ"
窶ｹ窶ｺ窶佚娯?堙嫁?ﾃ懌?堙懌?堙ｪ窶堙ｩﾂ絶?ｦ窶ｹﾃ｢窶堋ｪ窶佚卩ｽ邃｢窶堙架?ｫ窶ｰe窶ｹﾂｿ窶堙ｰ窶ｹy窶堙壺?堋ｷ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堙?、ﾅ津ｺﾂ青ｶﾋ廱窶慊ｭﾂ湘遺?堋ｪ窶督ｼ窶楼窶堙ｰ窶ｹ窶懌?堋ｰ窶堙?、窶戰窶｢w窶堙可静崢食窶堙ｰﾂ週窶啣窶ｰﾃｱﾋ?遺?ｰﾂｺ窶堙俄?堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堙ｦ窶堋､窶敖ｭ窶｢\窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾆ鱈ﾆ停?愴陳?胆ﾆ辰窶堙｢ﾆ陳?谷ﾆ淡ﾆ鱈窶堙娯?ｰﾂｿﾅ?i窶堋ｪ窶ｹ}窶版ｽ窶堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堙ｩﾂ。
2003/06/15 07:21 ﾂ【窶ｹﾂ､窶慊ｯ窶凖環信ﾂ】
The annoucement from the government about the mercury concentration and the recomendation that pregnant women should reduce the intake caused the sharp price drop of certain seafood
July 15, 2003

 

[butakun]

The government obviously did NOT do enough, also, because they are involved in the pro-whaling. thats exactly the point.
Who allows to sell such meat to schoolchildren despite knowing, its dangerous, even supports this, lacks very basic responsibility.

Yes it's important that we watch out for the safety. But I've read the report (will dig the link later), and they indeed recognized it but the amount of average intake was not big enough to warrant full-out ban on dolphin meat, while definitely encouraging the continuation of close monitoring. Minke whale hunt is a different issue here. Different species have very different characteristics on mercury/PCB content, and in fact Minke whale was found to be quite safe in terms of mercury content. What is of issue here is the dolphin meat taken in Taiji and its safety. Taiji school board pull ed the meat out of the menu, and I agree that they should have been more careful and the distribution of meat in school lunch must be more closely monitored so that it doesn't happen again, and that's the responsibility the government, local or national, should bear. But this does not mean whaling should be banned in my opinion.

 

[Chi65]

You don't know how much whale meat dishes the kids ate, or what the govenment did caused another troubles before...
Or I should say that you did not know what the government did, though I don't know what you mean by "enough".
Please define it...

Well, we do know, there are several links and quotes already. At least since 2003 there were more than 250 in schools in Wakayama provided with that meat, I think, at the beginning they talked about 270 or so, can't remember.
But that was surely only the beginning of that campain. At that moment it was already known, that this meat was not safe at all!
And the government did nothoing against this, they even supported this!!
While they now do, as if they had nothing to do with it, what a lie!

There have been demonstrations in 2003 already, in Tokyo, if I remember right, its also on one of those links.
I suppose, if you see the searches, you will find it, or you just google.

Is that not enough? And thats only one example, not to mention the laxity, if not total ignorance about letting the whalers sell this food and even spreading, that it is health food!

Now they have the trouble in their own house piling up. Minamata was already openly mentioned by many long ago for the very same reason as now, and now it becomes even more urgent.

 

[Chi65]

Yes it's important that we watch out for the safety. But I've read the report (will dig the link later), and they indeed recognized it but the amount of average intake was not big enough to warrant full-out ban on dolphin meat, while definitely encouraging the continuation of close monitoring. Minke whale hunt is a different issue here. Different species have very different characteristics on mercury/PCB content, and in fact Minke whale was found to be quite safe in terms of mercury content. What is of issue here is the dolphin meat taken in Taiji and its safety. Taiji school board pull ed the meat out of the menu, and I agree that they should have been more careful and the distribution of meat in school lunch must be more closely monitored so that it doesn't happen again, and that's the responsibility the government, local or national, should bear. But this does not mean whaling should be banned in my opinion.

Well, I suggest, you read more than just this page, and if possible, more than just one link or quote. Minke is not safe, only a bit less contaminated than other whales, but definitely not safe.
Dolphins and whales share the same ability to store such poisions via fat, are equally handled via whalers and government, consumers even often fooled by false labels, for example whale for dolphin and vice versa, and all been labeled for health food. And all been found poisoned by according tests. It has all been shown here all the time.
And then the fake scientific whaling label, while provable no one has to be killed for this nowadays. Sorry, its enough now.

 

[butakun]

Chi, I've read the article you linked and I am in no way disputing any figures appropriately published, and I do commend your effort in raising food safety awareness. There is a protocol to be followed when determining the risk of mercury poisoning, as pretty much every species found in the ocean is contaminated to some extent. The justification for not completely banning Gondou dolphin meat was that the average intake of said meat was not enough to warrant a complete ban. In fact, tuna is more dangerous in this sense, although their mercury content might not be as high as dolphin meat, its meat is consumed far far more frequently by average Japanese.

Whaling is not necessary. This, in fact, I agree. It's probably my libertarianism tendency which makes me wary of comprehensive whaling ban, when appropriately limited regulation could achieve the same effect.

As for the distinction between whales and dolphins, I did not draw a line like that. I've come to learn that the distinction between them are pretty much arbitrary, and biologically there is a more accurate grouping of cetatea. They can be grouped into two primary groups and are indeed quite different in terms of their position in the food chain, and Minke is of one group and Gondou dolphin is of another, and they differ significantly in where they get mercury from, not how they keep.

I'm not saying Minke was safe in an absolute scale. They do contain more mercury than other food, it seems, and I certainly don't object if the meat is banned if mercury content is of dangerous level to public health.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

<OFFTOPIC>
I hear this line a lot, but not sure why this is even relevant. My wife is of a different race, culture, religion, but I don't think that makes me automatically immune from being a bigot, I can be just as disrespectful to her culture as anybody else.
Anyway, you raised an interesting point here and I wanted to respond to it:

I'm stating the obvious..

The member claiming racism has been washed, so no more need to justify my non racist views, although I hear you and I'm sure most would understand if my wife was a different culture to me, do you honestly think I would be racist to the culture.. The answer is no.

Hope that clears your Non Topic part up. please do not carry on.

 

[Chi65]

I just think, if "they" can't handle it safely and with respect, they should not do it, and I mean the whalers as well as the government and others, or as much us humans in general.
Knowing, that even other states than just Japan are and will be effected by misinformations and thus according following effects, plus definitely growing ocean pollution, it should be better these days, to drop it alltogether, even outside any whale loving aspect.
Yes, this might very well also include other fish, except they really come from clean waters, sure. Weird thought, but maybe this is, where it all moves to.

(I personally have no idea, how that could/or should be done then)

Well, I hope, our Eco-meat is OK, although I personally am not such a paranoid one to move towards completely meat free diet (sorry, dear veggies, I know, you have other reasons, which I respect very much, but cannot (yet?) fully sign, please, be patient with me). Even ecological vegetables are not always free from poison either, nor can I draw a clear line between a vegetagle and an animal, from clear knowledge etc.
But in my present age and an average age of 85 or more to expect due to genetics, I am not too bothered about maybe loosing a few years, in case.

But if children. . .then I get all the red buttons ringing at once, and very loud!
Thats the mum in me, simple fact. And why not, if some naughty boys can't stop cheating and killing for money and fun.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Butakun:

I think the main issue here is the fact that Dolphins, that are being slaughtered in Japan, are being eaten which is potentially dangerous due to high mercury levels present inside.

Would you want your kids to eat them if you knew that mercury was their?
I know I wouldn't.

As a side note, I definitely do not agree with the cruel and savage slaughter of rounding them into nets them stabbing them all, left to die a slow and agonizing death:131:

 

[pipokun]

Only thing you can do is not to consume any seafood if you are interested in the food fad.

Salt or water kills you if you take them too much, and all kids should study that you can eat raw pork sausage if you have strict food standards like Germany.

My poor English/French skills have nothing to do with the mercury concentration in seafood.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

The minke whale is safe to eat. The chances of dying from heart attack and caner is greater with eating sausages and pokk chops, hamburgers than lean ecological whale meat.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Once again you've effectively demonstrated your lack of reading comprehension (or disregard for keeping things on topic) and your willingness to simply stick your nose into any thread even remotely related to the ocean to get on your soap box and go on about how good whaling is and how people should cut you a break.

If your country is already whaling for 'scientific' purposes and essentially circumventing the ban then what do you care anyway? If anyone was going to change the minds of anti-whaling proponents I doubt it'd be the likes of you.

Whaling isn't high on my list of things humans should be doing right now in the world, but killing dolphins is even worse. They're clearly intelligent animals which we understand very little about, and they are not a natural part of our food chain either. In principle eating them would be akin to killing and eating primates; it's just ignorant and wasteful. It's already quite unfortunate that they're being poisoned by mercury.

 

[Sarapva]

Whaling isn't high on my list of things humans should be doing right now in the world, but killing dolphins is even worse. They're clearly intelligent animals which we understand very little about, and they are not a natural part of our food chain either. In principle eating them would be akin to killing and eating primates; it's just ignorant and wasteful. It's already quite unfortunate that they're being poisoned by mercury.

This is a good analogy - thanks, B.K. It's disheartening to think how these dolphins are being rounded up and slaughtered "en masse". I'm sure that there is terror that spreads through the group like it would be for humans being killed that way.

 

[pipokun]

they are not a natural part of our food chain either.

Higher mercury concentration in aged and bigger fish is quite natural.
A legendary Taoist master in China was said to live on mist, but it is usually difficult for us to eat it.
So the first thing kids should learn is that obesity is a great index to measure how greedy you are against nature.

 

[butakun]

Butakun:
I think the main issue here is the fact that Dolphins, that are being slaughtered in Japan, are being eaten which is potentially dangerous due to high mercury levels present inside.

Agreed.

Would you want your kids to eat them if you knew that mercury was their?
I know I wouldn't.

No I wouldn't either. I just don't see the connection to whaling ban. Mercury is present in many species of fish as well, mainly big ones, and they must be all closely monitored for safety.