Martial Arts impervious to any Attacks

[Leroy_Brown]

You have got to check this out. It's in Japanese however.

About a school in Indiana that teaches how to take punches (to the throat) and kicks (to the groin) without being hurt. The founder of this art had studied in Okinawa .

The Japanese fighter featured in the program is a legitimate world-class mixed martial arts fighter named Genki Sudo. His attacks do nothing to the Indiana fighters.


http://www.jukoryu.com/TV/sudo.mpg

 

[Fantt]

Lots of martial arts train in this sort of "ki" resistance stuff. As a student of Aikido I'm not all that impressed. It doesn't seem very practical. I'd guess if you punched that same guy unawares from behind in a kidney he'd probably go down. I'd rather dodge a hit, catch my attackers hand, and then show him the error of his approach than stand there and take it. I would like to see the same guy absorb a shotgun blast to the crotch. THAT would be impressive.

Penn and Teller catch bullets in their teeth...

 

[Leroy_Brown]

As a student of Aikido I'm not all that impressed.

So I assume you can do the same, and more.

As a former student of Aikido, I WAS impressed.

 

[Leroy_Brown]

I'm not plugging them, but for those who are interested, here's their website:


http://w3.jdsport.com/index.html?dir=/dir/index-2-42-68910-6-.html

 

[TwistedMac]

anyone can harden themselves enough to be able to take a punch without throwing themselves to the mat... It's not gonna be good for you though...And I doubt these people really don't think it hurts.. looks more like they're putting on a show, just holding it in. maybe throwing punches with your friends wont do much, but with a professional kickboxer or something throwing hte punches, your kidneys/adamsapple/nuts wouldn't last many days.. I saw a 1½ hour show on that exact dojo.. except they wore blue uniforms and it was like 50% housewifes and stuff in that show.. but it was that combat ki stuff and I think I recognised the sensei. Couldn't stop laughing though... this one woman was just passing the test, she looked to be about 45... it just looked so funny. You had to be there.

To me it looks like those idiots you see on funny videos around the net re-enacting jackass drunk.. "come on! hit me! come on!"

What I don't get is how getting a kick to the nuts doesn't send you reeling... I guess if you do it enough times, they're already broken.. either that or it's some sort of a hidden secret wishiwasha technique to suck your balls in to your body. *plop plop* WHOOSHA! BALLS ALL GONE!

Why would you wanna train this though?
apparently they harden three places.. neck, balls and kidneys... and that's all they do.. is that it? it's all I've seen them do...

 

[Index]

I had a look at the web site and they look like a bunch of morons. For starters their motto is "where the obsessed train'. They obviously don't know that obsessions are not particularly positive from a mental health perspective. Some of the instructors claim to be 1st Dan in Ninpo too, which is also uninformed. Ninpo is not a martial arts style but a philosophy. They might refering to Ninjutsu I guess, but like Karate for example, there are many ryuha in Ninjutsu, so what are they talking about?

 

[Leroy_Brown]

All typical responses I expected.

Instead of denigrating another art, it never hurts to simply respect it and see if there is anything you could learn from it.

To quote C.W. Nicol from his book Moving Zen:

To be narrow in thought about different arts and different styles was only to foster a weakness. Nakayama sensei, our chief instructor [of Japan Karate Association], was certainly not narrow. He had studied many arts, and he had studied in China. Once I asked him if he thought Karate was the best of the unarmed fighting arts. He answered that he thought it was. In that case, I countered, what about Tai Chi Chuan? Nakayama sensei laughed, and with a smile he said, "For human beings, Karate is the best way. But there are some men who are super human, and perhaps a few of the Tai Chi sensei are just that."

 

[Glenn]

Well, whether they can only take kicks to the ribs and groin and just take punches to the throat and neck, they can still do that. Is it practical? I don't care. It's certainly impressive to me. I know if someone hit me like that I'd be writhing in pain. Does it cause permanent damage? I don't really see how it can't, but I guess it'll be a few years before that can be known for sure. Anyway, they took a pounding that should have incapacitated them, and they just stood there, as if nothing had happened. I don't see how that can not be impressive.

 

[TwistedMac]

I don't know. to me these guys fill the air with the same sort of attitude those guys that crush beer cans on their foreheads do. sure, it's nice that you can do it and everything, but I wont consider you any sort of genious for it, I wont try to emulate it, I wont respect you for it, and if you say you hardly felt it I'll call you a liar and claim you're just holding it in.

If this is what they wanna do, go ahead. I just dislike that kind of people.

(I might be biased on the beer can crushing as it can't be done with a Swedish beer can. never seen anyone do it ever anyway. we have a different metal compund that makes them hard as rocks )

 

[Index]

All typical responses I expected.

I wasn't denigrating it, (well maybe a little), but making an opinion based on what I saw on the web site.

I've seen enough martial artists (sic.) who are bullshit artists to know one when I see one. As TwistedMac said, there's nothing impressive about smashing a beer can on your forehead, and being kicked in the nuts is certainly not artistic. It's actually really stupid. It will be really funny when he lets someone outside the dojo do it to him in a real confrontation, when the kicker has a knife sticking out of his shoe.

 

[Glenn]

Could you clue me in as to what makes these guys BS artists? I really don't see it.

I don't think it's stupid to condition yourself to not be affected by attacks, and I don't see a connection with the beer can smashing. On the one hand, you've got guys who train so that in the event that they get hit they can continue fighting, and on the other hand you've got idiots trying to impress girls. That's how I see it. As for the real confrontation situation, as I said above, I doubt they would let someone just hit them in a real fight. And they did let someone from outside their dojo hit them.

 

[Index]

Like I said in my first post, it makes no sense to say you are a "first dan in Ninpo". Secondly, their motto is "...where the obsessed train...".

Anyway, I don't think the stuff they showed on the TV programme was particularly impressive from a pain tolerance point of view (except maybe the groin kicks; but maybe they were wearing groin guards). Firstly, did you see the size of those guys? Most of them, except the first blonde guy were fat and had God knows how many kilos of padding, and the so those kind of attacks were useless. The first guy was padded with muscle. It was nothing for them. Would you be surprised if you punched a tree and it didn't feel the pain? As an aside, unless you have experienced it, you'd be surprissed how much damage you can take.

Furthermore, if you have ever been kicked in the groin (or anywhere for that matter) when you are running on adrenaline or prepared for it, you can deal with it at that moment. You feel the damage much later. Like the doctor interviewed stated, just because they don't feel the pain does not make the attack any less damaging. There are lots of anecdotal cases of soldiers being injured, shot etc. and not realizing until much later (or when they fall unconscious or die).

In regard to being kicked in the street, of course they wouldn't let anyone kick them in the groin on purpose. Anyone who had any idea about martial arts would kick them when they were not expecting (I would have thought that would be so obvious that it would not have to be said). Anyway, there is much more to martial arts (as opposed to sports martial arts) than kicking and punching like you see in that programme. I don't think you'd be left standing if the guy kicking had steel capped boots or a knife in his shoes and kicked you while gouging out your eye with his thumb or chopstick, ripping you ear off, kicking your knee out or breaking your elbow. Actually kicking or punching someone is the last thing you do anyway, after you have taken their ability to balance and move effectively. It is then that the kick and punches work.

Finally, I have seen training videos of guys from the middle east who beat the hell out of each other with wooden planks, baseball bats, etc. That was somewhat more impressive, though easily just as stupid.

 

[Glenn]

Like I said in my first post, it makes no sense to say you are a "first dan in Ninpo". Secondly, their motto is "...where the obsessed train...".

Well, English isn't everyone's strong suit. "Obsessed" probably means something else to them. I don't think that makes them frauds. Don't know about the "ninpo" thing, though. Maybe they just got the terminology wrong.

Anyway, I don't think the stuff they showed on the TV programme was particularly impressive from a pain tolerance point of view (except maybe the groin kicks; but maybe they were wearing groin guards). Firstly, did you see the size of those guys? Most of them, except the first blonde guy were fat and had God knows how many kilos of padding, and the so those kind of attacks were useless. The first guy was padded with muscle. As an aside, unless you have experienced it, you'd be surprissed how much damage you can take.

I don't think that they had too much padding in their throats. And according to Steve Harvey and the Discovery Channel guy they weren't wearing groin pads or cups.

Furthermore, if you have ever been kicked in the groin (or anywhere for that matter) when you are running on adrenaline or prepared for it, you can deal with it at that moment. You feel the damage much later. Like the doctor interviewed stated, just because they don't feel the pain does not make the attack any less damaging. There are lots of anecdotal cases of soldiers being injured, shot etc. and not realizing until much later (or when they fall unconscious or die).

Well, I suppose I shouldn't doubt that some people are this stupid, but why on earth would you constantly allow yourself to take hits if you know that it will hurt later, and possibly cause permanent damage? Crashing a beer can on your head is one thing, but to take so many hits to the groin is quite another. If your forehead swells, then it's a bit of an inconvenience. If your testicles swell then you're probably seriously thinking about suicide. By the way, what do you mean by "much later?" Do you mean hours, days, weeks, months, or years? I wonder when these videos were done, and if they were a few years ago, I wonder how these guys are doing now. But I have to believe that they'd been doing this for years before the videos.

Also, what about the testimonials from the magazine editor who claims that Ed Parker, James Lew, and other well-known martial artists kicked and punched these guys and got the same results? Do you think that's a mere fabrication? I wish I could look at it again, but for some reason their site isn't working right now.

In regard to being kicked in the street, of course they wouldn't let anyone kick them in the groin on purpose. Anyone who had any idea about martial arts would kick them when they were not expecting (I would have thought that would be so obvious that it would not have to be said).

I don't think it was so obvious, because this is how you originally phrased it, and this is what I was responding to:

It will be really funny when he lets someone outside the dojo do it to him in a real confrontation, when the kicker has a knife sticking out of his shoe.

Anyway, there is much more to martial arts (as opposed to sports martial arts) than kicking and punching like you see in that programme. I don't think you'd be left standing if the guy kicking had steel capped boots or a knife in his shoes and kicked you while gouging out your eye with his thumb or chopstick, ripping you ear off, kicking your knee out or breaking your elbow. Actually kicking or punching someone is the last thing you do anyway, after you have taken their ability to balance and move effectively. It is then that the kick and punches work.

Actually that was something that I was wondering about. Does this "Combat Ki" protect the body, or is it merely controlling pain? It seems that if they take no damage then it would be protecting them. If it's just controlling pain then it wouldn't help them much if they had an eye gouged out or a broken arm, as you said.

Finally, I have seen training videos of guys from the middle east who beat the hell out of each other with wooden planks, baseball bats, etc. That was somewhat more impressive, though easily just as stupid.

I would find that impressive too, should I see it.

 

[Index]

Well, English isn't everyone's strong suit. "Obsessed" probably means something else to them. I don't think that makes them frauds. Don't know about the "ninpo" thing, though. Maybe they just got the terminology wrong.

How can you get the terminology wrong of something in which you are supposedly qualified?

I concede that I phrased my comment about letting someone kick them in the groin innacurately, but I wanted to suggest that this kind of training may foster the attitude or belief that you can do this and everything will be OK. If a person with this kind of attitude were to let an expert hit them with the belief that they could take it, they may get a rude shock.

From my experience, after i've been hit, it has usually taken a couple of hours for the pain to come, as well as swelling, internal bleeding etc., but sometimes not until the next day.

If "combat ki" worked, one would imagine that it would have been discovered already, since warfare and combat have been around for a very long time. If it worked and had been discovered earlier, armour may not have been developed either, in older forms of combat.

 

[Glenn]

How can you get the terminology wrong of something in which you are supposedly qualified?

I know it sounds strange, but I think this could be the same as the "ninjitsu, jiujitsu" thing. Although in the case of the latter, it's just misromanization. I know what you mean, though. I can't really answer that.

I concede that I phrased my comment about letting someone kick them in the groin innacurately, but I wanted to suggest that this kind of training may foster the attitude or belief that you can do this and everything will be OK. If a person with this kind of attitude were to let an expert hit them with the belief that they could take it, they may get a rude shock.

True, and even the head instructor admits that ideally they would hope to always be aware of their surroundings, but this isn't always the case.

From my experience, after i've been hit, it has usually taken a couple of hours for the pain to come, as well as swelling, internal bleeding etc., but sometimes not until the next day.

I must admit I'm a bit surprised to hear that it sometimes takes a day for the pain to come, but then again I guess we all have those moments when we find a cut or a bruise and wonder just how and when it got there.

 

[Index]

I must admit I'm a bit surprised to hear that it sometimes takes a day for the pain to come, but then again I guess we all have those moments when we find a cut or a bruise and wonder just how and when it got there.

Sometimes swelling continues for quite a while, even whilst sleeping, so you can wake up with more pain than you had when you went to bed,

The point about romanization etc. is valid, but I don't think it really applies here. Whether you write jujitstu, jiujitsu, ninjutsu, ninjitsu is beside the point because whichever you write, you would still specify what ryuha you were refering too, as is standard practice with Karate for example. Ninpo on the other hand, is a term that is rarely used because it refers to a kind of thinking or philosophy, not practical techniques per se. It would be like saying you are a first dan in Buddhism...

 

[TwistedMac]

On the one hand, you've got guys who train so that in the event that they get hit they can continue fighting, and on the other hand you've got idiots trying to impress girls.

I guess that's where our opinions differ is all I don't see the first hand you're talking about. What I see are idiots trying to impress (if it is girls or others makes no difference.)

 

[Glenn]

The point about romanization etc. is valid, but I don't think it really applies here. Whether you write jujitstu, jiujitsu, ninjutsu, ninjitsu is beside the point because whichever you write, you would still specify what ryuha you were refering too, as is standard practice with Karate for example. Ninpo on the other hand, is a term that is rarely used because it refers to a kind of thinking or philosophy, not practical techniques per se. It would be like saying you are a first dan in Buddhism...

Well, I don't know about Buddhism, but I know that you can be a first dan in soroban (abacus). I suppose it's still not transferable, though, because even with the abacus there's a skill, and as far as I know there aren't any skills involved in Buddhism. Well, unless you count meditation skills, but I'm not even sure that that exists. I admit that I was grasping at straws with that argument.

I guess that's where our opinions differ is all I don't see the first hand you're talking about. What I see are idiots trying to impress (if it is girls or others makes no difference.)

Well then, agree to disagree.

Heh, I really don't like that saying, but it was pretty funny in Anchorman.

 

[Reiku]

Hmm, if this is the same thing I saw last year, then I have to say I have serious doubts about it. The concept itself is sound, but the instructor and the demonstration I saw were less than impressive.

I don't have time to check the link right now, so this could be a different school--or perhaps the group I saw was just claiming the name of this school without cause--but if it is the same thing, then I doubt there's anything to it.

I know a fake martial artist when I see one, and this one was definitely fake.

 

[BlackenedEyes]

These people must not have seen the Grandmaster at the place where I used to study. (My dad is obsessed with martial arts and as such I was granted the "Privilage" of being tossed into it at age 3... lucky me.) That guy could spear-hand through cow hide. I don't think anyone could take that type of hit to the throat and live. (he also did a demo where he had a pitcher of water balanced straight up on his foot, but I dont think that's half as impressive as the cow hide thing) So, mabe it's possible to take a punch to the throat because of the way it strikes, but there are some other strikes that I think would connect alot better.

 

[Loyalist]

I guess that's where our opinions differ is all I don't see the first hand you're talking about. What I see are idiots trying to impress (if it is girls or others makes no difference.)

Do you not find the ability to take hits during combat important? If you were in a fight and you got kicked in the balls, your attacker (if untrained/stupid) would mostlikely think he has won. This would alow you to counterattack more effectively. Yes I do belive that some of these guys do it for the power rush they get by showing off. But to a martial artist like myself i find hit absorbtion to be very important. The hit may hurt later, but later you wont be fighting.

 

[Ikyoto]

Practical combat vs what goes on in the dojo - there's were this falls apart. On the street the fight will turn into atempts to grapple. I've been a cop and a marine and been training in jujitsu since I was 8, aikido since i was 12 and kenjitsu since 16. Even with all that I avoid street fights like they were the plague. Why?

Becasue a street fight can go from pusing and shoving to someon trying to open your head up wiht a brick within seconds - and there is no way to tell which way it's going to go or when!

These people are learnign something dangerous - lack of ability to think as fast asthey should. Standing and taking a shot is great - but do they learn to disarm the small knife the guy is going to pull out next? I can stop a pretty good shot from a bo or kcik with my ribs, but a 2" kinfe that gets lucky can open an artery and still kill me befroe I can get to a hospital.

Stupid to teach one thing and even dumber to think that there is any one perfect art.

As fo nijitsu - please. Learn some history. EVERY "school" of ninjitsu I've ever seen or heard of can't legitimatly trace it's origin any further back then some pad movei out of the 80's and someone taking techniques from other arts and saying they are a ninja . They were assassins and dirty fighters and GREAT at scarey stories about themselves. THAT is why they were so feared. The "real" ninja of history would laugh themselves silly at someone being so open about it - the whole point was NOT to ever be identified!

 

[Loyalist]

These people are learnign something dangerous - lack of ability to think as fast asthey should. Standing and taking a shot is great - but do they learn to disarm the small knife the guy is going to pull out next? I can stop a pretty good shot from a bo or kcik with my ribs, but a 2" kinfe that gets lucky can open an artery and still kill me befroe I can get to a hospital.

Stupid to teach one thing and even dumber to think that there is any one perfect art.

On the street sometimes you dont have the advantage of thinking at the start. Being able to take the first hit(s) without going down is quite vital. In no way am I saying you should sit there and take it, but being able to take it if you dont have a choice is important. Being able to withstand a signifigant primary attack will allow you a second(s) to counter and live, or pick up that conveineint brick near your foot. Obviously if you are aware you are going to be attacked you should do somthing to prevent damage and not just suck it up and try to freak the guy out.

 

[Mike Cash]

But Dooooooodzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!

The founder of the school trained in OKINAWA!!!!!!!

That's where Miyagi Sensei was from.

 

[Index]

Wax on wax off (jerk off?)